361 replies to this topic

[Ladida]

The Caribbean and South America adore foreigners' moneyyy You can buy lots of weird shit like abstract carvings of entwined naked people. But if you live there, the locals won't treat you badly, speaking from experience. They treat you better once their get even a hint of that accent you've got there. Down here, people adore North America, and are always going in and out on vacation to the US and Canada. The main reasons North Americans wouldn't come here is because of the crime rate and lack of tourist areas in some areas.. But there aren't hate crimes that target North Americans or different religions.

[Skywalker]

If it is not affect other people, just relax

[Jake]

Not sure about that, as we were talking about the latinos that work in the US and such.


And Jake, even though I respect your point of view, I have to disagree.


People migrate for many different reasons, so you can't just hate on everyone that moves into the USA without knowing why they did so.
If you lived in a shitty country, you'd probably want to move out too!

Well personally I was indeed talking about mainly the middle east, I have nothing wrong with most latinos. They don't smell bad, good food... and 'Eh homie'.


South Americans are apparently an issue for the US, not so much here. It's cities in this country that can be misinterpreted as a city in another country that adds onto my boil of hate. egs. Brampton, Ontario = Pakiflakaafghanistan. Vancouver, BC = China ching chong a ding dong town. You say in most cases they lived in a shitty country, yes, I completely understand the notion, it's why they expect even more on top of getting out of their shitty countries. I've come by so many that say something like 'Oh, 'insert random small Ontarian city' has so much space, I don't understand why they don't make it more populated/build more etc.'. My obvious reply is 'I DON'T WANT THIS COUNTRY TO BE LIKE YOUR SHITTY ASS GARBAGE ONE."

If it is not affect other people, just relax

Woah nice input bro.

[frostz]

Well personally I was indeed talking about mainly the middle east, I have nothing wrong with most latinos. They don't smell bad, good food... and 'Eh homie'.


South Americans are apparently an issue for the US, not so much here. It's cities in this country that can be misinterpreted as a city in another country that adds onto my boil of hate. egs. Brampton, Ontario = Pakiflakaafghanistan. Vancouver, BC = China ching chong a ding dong town. You say in most cases they lived in a shitty country, yes, I completely understand the notion, it's why they expect even more on top of getting out of their shitty countries. I've come by so many that say something like 'Oh, 'insert random small Ontarian city' has so much space, I don't understand why they don't make it more populated/build more etc.'. My obvious reply is 'I DON'T WANT THIS COUNTRY TO BE LIKE YOUR SHITTY ASS GARBAGE ONE."



Woah nice input bro.

i resent dis statement.
But i do agree that if people want to move to a different country to escape their shitty country, they should at least try and assimilate into the culture.. or at least learn the language. Well both of these usually happen by the 2nd or third generation anyway its its usually a non issue if we are looking at it from a "long term" point of view.

[luvsmyncis]

they should at least try and assimilate into the culture..

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

[Maloo]

i resent dis statement.
But i do agree that if people want to move to a different country to escape their shitty country, they should at least try and assimilate into the culture.. or at least learn the language. Well both of these usually happen by the 2nd or third generation anyway its its usually a non issue if we are looking at it from a "long term" point of view.

Would you abandon your culture if you moved to another country? I wouldn't, personally. Speaking English has nothing to do with abandoning your culture.

[frostz]

Would you abandon your culture if you moved to another country? I wouldn't, personally. Speaking English has nothing to do with abandoning your culture.

Well from a historical standpoint, assimilation doesn't really occur until the 2nd-3rd generation. The first generation of people to immigrate to the United States of any ethnic group normally tend to end up doing cheap labor, and so never really take part in the infrastructures that were set up for the purposes of cultural assimilation.

While, the United States does have a history of pressing immigrants to assimilate into US culture, it usually fails to truly assimilate the immigrants themselves, and are focused moreso upon the children of these immigrants. Schools would prevent them from speaking their mother language, or wearing traditional garb, as well as to press their religious beliefs upon them in the hopes that they would go home and influence their parents.

[Maloo]

Well from a historical standpoint, assimilation doesn't really occur until the 2nd-3rd generation. The first generation of people to immigrate to the United States of any ethnic group normally tend to end up doing cheap labor, and so never really take part in the infrastructures that were set up for the purposes of cultural assimilation.

While, the United States does have a history of pressing immigrants to assimilate into US culture, it usually fails to truly assimilate the immigrants themselves, and are focused moreso upon the children of these immigrants. Schools would prevent them from speaking their mother language, or wearing traditional garb, as well as to press their religious beliefs upon them in the hopes that they would go home and influence their parents.

And do you think doing this is right?!
That's what I've been asking!

[frostz]

And do you think doing this is right?!
That's what I've been asking!

If you move to a different country, naturally your children would assimilate into that culture.

However i don't believe that it is right to force that culture upon the children of these immigrants, as the United States did up till like the early 20th century.
Force as in punishing them for speaking in their mother tongue etc.

[Ladida]

My obvious reply is 'I DON'T WANT THIS COUNTRY TO BE LIKE YOUR SHITTY ASS GARBAGE ONE."

Agreed. Like that psycho dude with the honor killing in America, because his daughter became "too Westernized". Those people should be deported right back. It's a major problem when they bring the barbaric parts of their culture across the oceans.

[frostz]

Agreed. Like that psycho dude with the honor killing in America, because his daughter became "too Westernized". Those people should be deported right back. It's a major problem when they bring the barbaric parts of their culture across the oceans.

are you talking about this incident?

http://www.cbsnews.c...in7279009.shtml

[Jake]

Agreed. Like that psycho dude with the honor killing in America, because his daughter became "too Westernized". Those people should be deported right back. It's a major problem when they bring the barbaric parts of their culture across the oceans.

Thank you.

[Donaldmax]

online games with stupid mexicans that didn't know how to speak english pisses the frik out of me. you cant even communicate with them, its so annoying. people that cant speak english should stay out of america AND america games.

[JayScorpio]

online games with stupid mexicans that didn't know how to speak english pisses the frik out of me. you cant even communicate with them, its so annoying. people that cant speak english should stay out of america AND america games.

1st of all, English is NOT the official language of America, America doesn't have an official language.

2nd of all, America was MADE on immigrants, so unless you're a Native American Indian, just stay shut. And even they came mostly from Asia... but that's another story.

You live in America, with a lot of different races, and people that speak a lot of different languages, people have to learn to deal with that.

Edited by allie1225, 22 May 2011 - 01:55 PM.

[Frizzle]

1st of all, English is NOT the official language of America, America doesn't have an official language.

2nd of all, America was MADE on immigrants, so unless you're a Native American Indian, just stay shut. And even they came mostly from Asia... but that's another story.

You live in America, with a lot of different races, and people that speak a lot of different languages, people have to learn to deal with that.

Lol wut? Majority of immigrants were English and Dutch. The rest were other Europeans. Also English is the de facto language of the US so don't try and throw that back.

[Jake]

1st of all, English is NOT the official language of America, America doesn't have an official language.

2nd of all, America was MADE on immigrants, so unless you're a Native American Indian, just stay shut. And even they came mostly from Asia... but that's another story.

You live in America, with a lot of different races, and people that speak a lot of different languages, people have to learn to deal with that.

That guy's point was they should stick with their mexican games, you know, where english speaking people don't play.

[JayScorpio]

Lol wut? Majority of immigrants were English and Dutch. The rest were other Europeans. Also English is the de facto language of the US so don't try and throw that back.

I know that and that's why I said that America was made on immigrants, and that no one is native to this land unless your a N.A. Indian. & it may be the de facto language, I'm aware of that also, but its not the official language.

That guy's point was they should stick with their mexican games, you know, where english speaking people don't play.

True, but i was mostly just replying to his first statement about calling another race stupid and & where he said "people that cant speak english should stay out of america".

[Frizzle]

I know that and that's why I said that America was made on immigrants, and that no one is native to this land unless your a N.A. Indian. & it may be the de facto language, I'm aware of that also, but its not the official language.



.
True, but i was mostly just replying to his first statement about calling another race stupid and & where he said "people that cant speak english should stay out of america".

You've not really refuted my point, you've just repeated what you originLly said

Edited by Frizzle, 23 May 2011 - 07:02 AM.

[frostz]

1st of all, English is NOT the official language of America, America doesn't have an official language.

2nd of all, America was MADE on immigrants, so unless you're a Native American Indian, just stay shut. And even they came mostly from Asia... but that's another story.

You live in America, with a lot of different races, and people that speak a lot of different languages, people have to learn to deal with that.

Technically English is the official language of the "United States" its been the official language ever since the colonization process was complete and the Indians were pushed out.

There is a difference between immigrants and conquerors. The europeans who came to the United States, not only colonized, but completely destroyed everyone else who was already here, if they were simply immigrants, then they would have been assimilating into native american culture and not the other way around.

[Sweeney]

Technically English is the official language of the "United States" its been the official language ever since the colonization process was complete and the Indians were pushed out.

There is a difference between immigrants and conquerors. The europeans who came to the United States, not only colonized, but completely destroyed everyone else who was already here, if they were simply immigrants, then they would have been assimilating into native american culture and not the other way around.

Do you ever argue anything other than semantics?

[frostz]

Do you ever argue anything other than semantics?

The meaning of words is important in any debate.

saying that the united states is a land of immigrants as an argument to keep people who are not "native americans" from speaking against immigrants doesn't really work when you look at it from the standpoint of Western Europeans, who were not really immigrating to what eventually became the United States but rather colonizing it as a part of the imperial apparatus.

The United States was not founded on immigration, is what i am trying to get at.

Edited by frostz, 23 May 2011 - 11:02 AM.

[JayScorpio]

Technically English is the official language of the "United States" its been the official language ever since the colonization process was complete and the Indians were pushed out.

There is a difference between immigrants and conquerors. The europeans who came to the United States, not only colonized, but completely destroyed everyone else who was already here, if they were simply immigrants, then they would have been assimilating into native american culture and not the other way around.

So then lets say after colorization and after the US became it's own country. For example, when the New Immigrants were coming from Europe, they came here, they had horrible jobs in factories & such and didn't know the language. Most of those Europeans reproduced here, and because of that, there are a lot of Caucasians with ancestors that where once considered immigrants.
Just like the immigrants we have today, your ancestors didn't speak the language, but they eventually assimilated, so there's no reason to tell immigrants today to get out of America because they don't speak English.


By the way, No where in the United States Constitution or federal laws we have today does it say that English is the official of the US.

[Jake]

So then lets say after colorization and after the US became it's own country. For example, when the New Immigrants were coming from Europe, they came here, they had horrible jobs in factories & such and didn't know the language. Most of those Europeans reproduced here, and because of that, there are a lot of Caucasians with ancestors that where once considered immigrants.
Just like the immigrants we have today, your ancestors didn't speak the language, but they eventually assimilated, so there's no reason to tell immigrants today to get out of America because they don't speak English.


By the way, No where in the United States Constitution or federal laws we have today does it say that English is the official of the US.

The only minor difference was save for the natives, the land was empty... it was theirs for the taking. Immigrants now have their own country, if they decide to move it is to get away from their garbage 3rd world country, for a job or for family. Eventually yes they will assimilate into the population, as you like to put it, but until they are 100% completely part of the country they should have no opinion or voice. If these immigrants find an empty land, it is theirs for the taking.

[frostz]

So then lets say after colorization and after the US became it's own country. For example, when the New Immigrants were coming from Europe, they came here, they had horrible jobs in factories & such and didn't know the language. Most of those Europeans reproduced here, and because of that, there are a lot of Caucasians with ancestors that where once considered immigrants.
Just like the immigrants we have today, your ancestors didn't speak the language, but they eventually assimilated, so there's no reason to tell immigrants today to get out of America because they don't speak English.


By the way, No where in the United States Constitution or federal laws we have today does it say that English is the official of the US.

Every country has its share of immigrants, or colonizers but that in itself is not the issue here unless we are debating what the country was built upon. What matters is that immigrants do spend some effort to learn the language of the country. It would be like going to Mexico or something knowing no Spanish at all and expecting everyone to speak English?

Secondly, It doesn't have to say that english is the official language, just like it doesn't have to say protestanism (although the religion part may be more blurred now) is the official religion. Its just something so obvious that no one even thinks about it, but knows it is true on some fundamental level.

And my standpoint on this is that the immigrants who come should in fact make an effort to learn the language. It's just annoying when you go into a store in the United States, but in one of the "ethnic towns" and you can't buy anything because you have no idea what the store keeper is saying.

They don't have to "get out" they just have to make an effort to assimilate.

I know a lot of sociologists or w/e make a huge deal about how assimilation is killing the culture of these immigrants, but they chose to come here, their children are born into "American" culture, as American citizens, so assimilation is inevitable and something that should be embraced rather than fought against. Even the first generation immigrants shouldn't be exempt from this and should make an effort as well, so that their children the 2nd generation would have an easier time fitting into american society.

[JayScorpio]

The only minor difference was save for the natives, the land was empty... it was theirs for the taking. Immigrants now have their own country, if they decide to move it is to get away from their garbage 3rd world country, for a job or for family. Eventually yes they will assimilate into the population, as you like to put it, but until they are 100% completely part of the country they should have no opinion or voice. If these immigrants find an empty land, it is theirs for the taking.

I'll give it to frostz there, colonization & immigration are two different things, & I agree with you, unless you're an American born or naturalized citizen, you shouldn't take a role in government. But in my last post, I'm referring to the immigration of the ancestors of the people that now today say things such as get out of the US if you don't know English. The extremely ignorant person that made this topic, most likely has someone in their ancestry that once was a non-speaking immigrant living in the US. If someone was to tell that to their lets say great-grandfather, that person will be offended so there's no reason why they should be saying it to others. They have to view things from other perspectives.