31 replies to this topic

[Junsu]

Do you think this would be a good modern Modest Proposal?

[Therion]

..No?

This just further cements the ideology that one mistake will follow your entire education. Forever. Coupled with the laughable state of elementary, middle and high school educations in the US, this would just breed another generation (perhaps a worse one) of students who feel they're destined to fail from day one and have no desire to even try with an education.

That said, I wouldn't want it in my country either. I think I passed 1 test in the 3 years I spent at secondary school.

[Waser Lave]

Do you think this would be a good modern Modest Proposal?

You're only proposing it because you're Asian and would therefore benefit from such a requirement.

[Nymh]

I wouldn't mind it. I like tattoos and my standardized test scores were very high. But I'm also an elitist snob.

Is this based on a current event or just something to ponder?

..No?

This just further cements the ideology that one mistake will follow your entire education. Forever. Coupled with the laughable state of elementary, middle and high school educations in the US, this would just breed another generation (perhaps a worse one) of students who feel they're destined to fail from day one and have no desire to even try with an education.

That said, I wouldn't want it in my country either. I think I passed 1 test in the 3 years I spent at secondary school.

I have a lot of friends who had no desire to try with their education, but the problem was not that they felt they were destined to fail, but that they thought that they would succeed regardless of their lack of effort. I think that is a common thread in America. Children and teens are raised to believe that they are perfect and special despite minimal effort and lackluster accomplishments. This generation of mediocre achievement has come to the conclusion that a college education is not necessary, and that good grades are just trying too hard.

Then they go out into the professional world and don't understand why employers won't give them management positions and high salaries just because they're a unique and special flower that has been coddled their entire life.

[Sida]

I'd rather they got a tattoo stamp saying "18" on their birthday, but if it has to be test scores then no, it's not that important as long as they're not stupid in general.

[Amagius]

Do you think this would be a good modern Modest Proposal?

Yes. It should be done when the child is five. Every year, an administrator pulls them aside and asks, "Do you want to take the test?"

If they have low scores and decide to take the test, the original tattoo is laser removed and the new score replaces it. If you score lower, well, maybe next year...

[glitch]

Is this for a paper or something? Because if it is, then given the original A Modest Proposal was a satirical piece of literature, I think there's a lot you could write on.

Because honestly, standardized testing is just...really pointless. What it really tests is your ability to fill out a scantron sheet and how well you can memorize a say, Princeton Review book.

[Dazz]

I'd just get a tattoo afterwards with the best score possible.

[nyquil]

I would definety be against it. I never tried hard in high school and graduated middle of my class but scored pretty well on the SATs (- the writing section). They reflect poorly on how well a student applies them self(clearly in my case). And also what glitches saying that it's more on memorization. I know so very smart people but they just suck ass at taking exams.

[glitch]

I would definety be against it. I never tried hard in high school and graduated middle of my class but scored pretty well on the SATs (- the writing section). They reflect poorly on how well a student applies them self(clearly in my case). And also what glitches saying that it's more on memorization. I know so very smart people but they just suck ass at taking exams.

I did well on everything but the writing part because our school decided to stop teaching basic grammar and then the teachers would moan about getting papers littered with grammatical errors. I spent two weeks cramming for an AP test - got a five - promptly forgot everything I learned. Short-term memorization is essentially the key to passing all standardized testing.

[Applepi]

I did well on everything but the writing part because our school decided to stop teaching basic grammar and then the teachers would moan about getting papers littered with grammatical errors. I spent two weeks cramming for an AP test - got a five - promptly forgot everything I learned. Short-term memorization is essentially the key to passing all standardized testing.

I scored well, didn't study. In my opinion, most standardized tests dont really test knowledge of the material but how well you can logic your way to an answer and general test taking strategy. I've always done extremely well on standardized tests (from middle school, to the ACTs, to my PCAT) but have always been an average/above average student. If you look at just a score, you dont get an idea of how intelligent a person really is, some people test poorly, others test better than their expected abilities. If you look at my PCAT score alone, you'd think I would be a 4.0 perfect student...truth is, i'm struggling to survive just like everyone. Tattooing test scores just sets everyone up with false expectations.

[Juturna]

You're trolling right?

Oh hell to the no. Personally, I hate tattoos. in general. I have an extremely low pain tolerance (I'm not sure how painful tattoo's are, but I'm sure I would cringe at it, and very much cry.) and am against any tattoos on myself. If somebody else wants to get a tattoo of anything, by all means, be my guest, but I cringe at the thought of any needles/metal/anything touching me or inside my body or creating holes in my body. I also find I'd rather keep my body pure/natural (not in a religious sense, I just would prefer my body to be kept in a natural state for some reason).

For me, it has nothing to do with the scores themselves, or education in general. You shouldn't just force these types of things on people. Absolutely no.

Edited by Juturna, 08 December 2011 - 12:09 PM.

[Rainie]

Why not like a.. sticker, or something like that instead? cX~~

Or at least make it an optional choice, since chances are that a lot of students would most likely feel insecure with this procedure.

A teacher of mine a few years back thought of doing a "Wall of Fame" for people who scored 100 (or over) on tests but instead of encouraging/inspiring students to do well like she had hoped, it had actually made most them feel increasingly frustrated/depressed when their test (well, copy of their test) wasn't on the wall. (Of course, being Asian I always scored 100+ though so I never had that problem )

Although this isn't the exact same thing of course, I believe that it'd still cause the same outcome; beneficial to those who do well, bad for those who don't.

Like Juturna had mentioned, things like this shouldn't just be forced on others o:

I mean, if they want to get a tattoo of their score, then go for it cX~~
But otherwise, meh.. :x

(I will admit, I'm biased because I would never want to get a tattoo though X3)

[Protoman]

As a paper it sounds like a good idea. It pokes fun at the fact that everyone is all about standardized test scores even though, most of the time, they pertain no actual benefit to real life.

Sounds like a good idea

[Bone]

One of the worst people I know (in terms of morality, decency, value as a human being) got perfect scores on all his standardized tests.



And I also do very well (1st percentile) on most standardized tests, so it's not like I'm just bad at testing. I just think standardized testing will never be good enough to isolate intelligence (and certainly not inherent value or worth) from the limitless confounding variables.

[Frizzle]

Test scores mean absolutely nothing in real life.

[glitch]

Test scores mean absolutely nothing in real life.

This. Thiiisssss. It's not like your boss is going to come up to you and go "hey, I need the value of this in five minutes and you're not allowed to use a calculator or talk to anyone and if you don't get this right, you're fired." But then again, I can be proven wrong.

[Applepi]

This. Thiiisssss. It's not like your boss is going to come up to you and go "hey, I need the value of this in five minutes and you're not allowed to use a calculator or talk to anyone and if you don't get this right, you're fired." But then again, I can be proven wrong.

I will become this boss, just to prove you wrong In all seriousness, I do agree that that type of scenario doesn't really happen much in real life. I do see some value in at least knowing how to figure things out b/c you wont always have someone there to help you out. That being said, there should be more of an emphasis on how to research for solutions/help than blindly memorizing EVERYTHING.

[Junsu]

Is this for a paper or something? Because if it is, then given the original A Modest Proposal was a satirical piece of literature, I think there's a lot you could write on.

Because honestly, standardized testing is just...really pointless. What it really tests is your ability to fill out a scantron sheet and how well you can memorize a say, Princeton Review book.

Uhh sorry if it wasnt clear before XD
I was trying to allude to Swift's Modest Proposal if that clears things up.

[glitch]

Uhh sorry if it wasnt clear before XD
I was trying to allude to Swift's Modest Proposal if that clears things up.

Yeah, I read Swift's A Modest Proposal in class and I though that was what you were referring to. Thus I stand by my comment that this would be a good topic to be able to write a modern day A Modest Proposal on, in terms of modern educational values.

[Vyers]

you do realize that these test scores expire after a certain number of years?
i am going back for my second degree, and i was forced to take retard math (0301) for my degree plan instead of calculus because my test scores are no longer valid.

[Therion]

I have a lot of friends who had no desire to try with their education, but the problem was not that they felt they were destined to fail, but that they thought that they would succeed regardless of their lack of effort. I think that is a common thread in America. Children and teens are raised to believe that they are perfect and special despite minimal effort and lackluster accomplishments. This generation of mediocre achievement has come to the conclusion that a college education is not necessary, and that good grades are just trying too hard.

Then they go out into the professional world and don't understand why employers won't give them management positions and high salaries just because they're a unique and special flower that has been coddled their entire life.

I know I was raised in a generation where, it was constantly mentioned that if you didn't do well in school you would never amount to anything or get to do what you wanted when you grew up. This has had the opposite effect on me, for one.

To go back to the US state of education, look at the no child left behind bill, which since having been introduced has produced enormous amounts of dropouts all over the country. This would seem that a relaxed attitude to a child or teenagers learning is probably only serving to push him through a system he's got no interest in. Unfortunately, funding tends to be tied to either attendance, or standardized test scores. Poor test scores equal poor funding, which produces a cycle that is hard to break out of when you consider the impact of socio-economic status in education. A study put together by Laura-Lee Kearns at St Francis Xavier university in a 2011 edition of Canadian Journal of Education interviewed 16 students who failed a high stakes standardized test for literacy, many of them were surprised they had failed. They were passing well in their regular classes, and expected to pass the tests, but did not. All of them reported a feeling of degradation. To quote an excerpt from the article:

also
[She] interpreted the official communication from EQAO as a sign that she was not up to acceptable
standards. She said: “I work really hard and when I see these results from the government or who
marks that stuff, I feel like ‘wow maybe I am not at an acceptable level…maybe I should not
take academic courses.’”

Many of the students who failed the test reported that they had enjoyed their English classes, but were discouraged by the standardized tests from continuing with their English studies.

Students that don't do well on standardized tests, but the school system relies on standardized tests for funding, tend to do their best to filter out the low test scores to maximise funding.

Then you have funding tied to attendance.

Michigan state schools get paid per student attending on 'count' days. An absence of approximately 10,000 students across the district has been estimated to cost state education funding $73 million. Schools have taken to given incentives to show up on said days, some going as far as raffling off prizes for merely showing up. None of this paints a picture of a terribly caring educational system. Why should the child, a victim of all the bureaucracy, be forced to wear the scars of such a system forever?

On a personal note. I don't feel the tough love means of raising a person is necessarily the best. I see a lot of people that feel kids are growing up being told they're special and that they can do no wrong. While I don't feel that's healthy for the person, to be set up as if they are infallible, it works better for some kids than others. Some might benefit from a succeed or be punished system, but you'll never find a system that works perfectly for enhancing both of these very different psychological profiles.

[Turnip]

Test scores mean absolutely nothing in real life.

Pretty much this :V I haven't had that much for a consistent~*~* education so yeah a tattoo like that would be 100% horrible. Plus I'm terrible with pain and hate needles SO MUCH :'c

[jargon]

Nah, I think we should just stick to eating them. Even more so now than before since the poorest kids generally have the highest rate of obesity.