35 replies to this topic

[Tomo]

It's seriously as if these Occupy movements are springing up everywhere. It's nice that people are out there for a good cause but for others... they just want a good kick out of it.





I think it's pathetic. Seriously, they need a MESSAGE TEAM to figure out what their purpose of being there is? Damn organizer doesn't even know why he's there. Protesting for the sake of protesting is what their purpose is.

I haven't seen anything good come out of any of these "Occupy" movements, especially not in Sacramento obviously.

[Elindoril]

I was joking with a friend that people in Canada are participating in the same protests just because they can, it's hilarious to see that it's happening in America as well, where it was supposed to "mean something".

Oh well, hippy conflict is always something fun to read in the news.

[Melchoire]

They're still going on?

E: in all seriousness, this is the outcome I predicted. The protests aren't giving politicians and bankers any incentive to change their ways. As far as they're concerned these protesters don't pose as a threat to them. Its them and the government that hold the power, not the people. I bet they're just waiting for everyone to get tired and go home...

[travis]

I'm so disappointed. I have NEVER seen this much ignorance on Neocodex, and I've been around the block here several times.

Protests get things done. Protests made a difference, and they get things done - history tells us this is true (click for info). There IS a clear message to the Occupy movement. But guess what? Occupy is a left wing movement. Who dominates media and government? The right. The right media portrays Occupy in an ultra negative light and only displays what does so. The right government just ignores it - because they can. For now. The message of Occupy is to end corporate greed and end corporations being treated as and given the same rights as human beings. But why don't you know that? Because the right doesn't want you to. Media doesn't want you to. The thunderous voice of millions of people united for one cause will - nay, CAN NOT be ignored for long. This will make a difference. And Occupy won't go anywhere until it does.

This thread has me seeing red.

[Harlow]

Travis couldn't have said it better.

[Melchoire]

I'm so disappointed. I have NEVER seen this much ignorance on Neocodex, and I've been around the block here several times.

Protests get things done. Protests made a difference, and they get things done - history tells us this is true (click for info). There IS a clear message to the Occupy movement. But guess what? Occupy is a left wing movement. Who dominates media and government? The right. The right media portrays Occupy in an ultra negative light and only displays what does so. The right government just ignores it - because they can. For now. The message of Occupy is to end corporate greed and end corporations being treated as and given the same rights as human beings. But why don't you know that? Because the right doesn't want you to. Media doesn't want you to. The thunderous voice of millions of people united for one cause will - nay, CAN NOT be ignored for long. This will make a difference. And Occupy won't go anywhere until it does.

This thread has me seeing red.

If you look at the major political movements most(all?) of them were fairly violent with lives lost. Civil rights in the 50's for example; if you want to consider all of history throw in the french revolution: it perfectly mirrors the situation in the US but to a higher extreme. Neither of those revolutions would have been successful if the black people or french working class simply held "peaceful" protests.

What I'm trying to say is no one is taking them seriously....

[Amagius]

If you look at the major political movements most(all?) of them were fairly violent with lives lost. Civil rights in the 50's for example; if you want to consider all of history throw in the french revolution: it perfectly mirrors the situation in the US but to a higher extreme. Neither of those revolutions would have been successful if the black people or french working class simply held "peaceful" protests.

What I'm trying to say is no one is taking them seriously....

The civil rights movement was violent? I mean, it's not like it was the best part of our history, but it wasn't violent relatively. More to the point, Gandhi and others secured Indian independence through nonviolent means.

It's easy to see the Occupy movement as patchouli wearin', drum bangin' hippies... because that's the limited amount of light television media has given them. I'm not saying ignorant people aren't out there, misunderstanding the crisis that we face, but then again, what are you doing and what do you know? What amount of information has solved this economic clusterblah in your mind? You understand the Euro is close to Kaputt? And can you talk about Wall Street without either envy or disgust? At least those hippies are constantly reminding us how worthless the financial sector has been to our country and our people.

[Melchoire]

The civil rights movement was violent? I mean, it's not like it was the best part of our history, but it wasn't violent relatively. More to the point, Gandhi and others secured Indian independence through nonviolent means.

It's easy to see the Occupy movement as patchouli wearin', drum bangin' hippies... because that's the limited amount of light television media has given them. I'm not saying ignorant people aren't out there, misunderstanding the crisis that we face, but then again, what are you doing and what do you know? What amount of information has solved this economic clusterblah in your mind? You understand the Euro is close to Kaputt? And can you talk about Wall Street without either envy or disgust? At least those hippies are constantly reminding us how worthless the financial sector has been to our country and our people.

You misunderstand me. Ghandi's side used non-violent means but that doesn't mean the other side didn't. Many people were killed. The world saw that the Indians were being peaceful while the British were being the brutish aggressors. In my opinion that's what made the revolution successful.

I fully understand that there is a variety of different people involved in OWS but my point still stands: they need to get noticed.

[Kat]

You misunderstand me. Ghandi's side used non-violent means but that doesn't mean the other side didn't. Many people were killed. The world saw that the Indians were being peaceful while the British were being the brutish aggressors. In my opinion that's what made the revolution successful.

I fully understand that there is a variety of different people involved in OWS but my point still stands: they need to get noticed.

Am I the only one who thinks they are getting noticed? They're on the news every day. The internet is ablaze with Occupy. Just because the media doesn't give it 24/7 coverage doesn't mean it's not making a difference.

The other side of this protest is being aggressive, too. Police aggression. Aggresive media. No one has died of course, but there's been injuries. Plenty of opposition, plenty of reasons for it to be successful.
In my eyes it's already been successful in a few ways. It brought attention of current injustices not only to the media, but the middle and lower class folks that might ordinarily not pay attention. Those people that never even heard of the anti-Iraq war protests have all heard about Occupy..

[Melchoire]

It brought attention of current injustices not only to the media, but the middle and lower class folks that might ordinarily not pay attention.

I think it's safe to say the lower and middle class were already aware that they were getting screwed over by someone at the top...

For now, lets see how it pans out...

I actually feel kinda shitty making these kinds of remarks about people who are really busting their ass out in the cold to make a change =/

[Frizzle]

Why should we feel sorry for people that

A. I don't agree with their views

and

B. Choose to be there?

[luvsmyncis]

Why should we feel sorry for people that
A. I don't agree with their views
and
B. Choose to be there?

I feel sorry for the old lady that got pepper sprayed.



How would you feel if someone did that to your grandma? I'd be pissed. I'm grateful my grandmother is already dead, tbh. Knowing she can't be pepper sprayed beyond the grave. Fuuck.

[Melchoire]

I feel sorry for the old lady that got pepper sprayed.



How would you feel if someone did that to your grandma? I'd be pissed. I'm grateful my grandmother is already dead, tbh. Knowing she can't be pepper sprayed beyond the grave. Fuuck.

That's milk on her face right? Cuz it soothes the pain apparently...

This dude I knew in high school agreed to a bet that he'd take bear-spray to the face for and 8th ounce of pot and $20. The ass hole who sprayed him put hot sauce in the milk and offered it to him >_<

[travis]

Am I the only one who thinks they are getting noticed? They're on the news every day. The internet is ablaze with Occupy. Just because the media doesn't give it 24/7 coverage doesn't mean it's not making a difference.

The other side of this protest is being aggressive, too. Police aggression. Aggresive media. No one has died of course, but there's been injuries. Plenty of opposition, plenty of reasons for it to be successful.
In my eyes it's already been successful in a few ways. It brought attention of current injustices not only to the media, but the middle and lower class folks that might ordinarily not pay attention. Those people that never even heard of the anti-Iraq war protests have all heard about Occupy..

People actually have died or been severely crippled from the police brutality at occupy locations.

[Frizzle]

I feel sorry for the old lady that got pepper sprayed.



How would you feel if someone did that to your grandma? I'd be pissed. I'm grateful my grandmother is already dead, tbh. Knowing she can't be pepper sprayed beyond the grave. Fuuck.

When has age ever been a barrier from commiting an offence or an unjustification from a use of force.

People actually have died or been severely crippled from the police brutality at occupy locations.

No. No they haven't. That's a lie.

[Melchoire]

People actually have died or been severely crippled from the police brutality at occupy locations.

No one's died...not even severely crippled as far as I know. Source?

[Therion]

No one's died...not even severely crippled as far as I know. Source?

Define severely crippled? Scott Olson of the Oakland protests was shot in the head with a tear gas cannister, suffering a fractured skull and swelling of the brain, which could have been fatal quite easily.

I can think of quite a few other less serious injuries, though the pregnant woman that miscarriaged, alledgedly a result of the police brutality during the NYC protests should be mentioned, considering kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach can be considered homicide.

On a semi related note, Travis summed it up well. Whether you agree with the protests or not, don't listen to the US news stations regarding it. A select few international sources can probably be trusted to consolidate the news, I personally trust the guardian to report on it reasonably accurately.

[Jakerz]

@travis statement, if people wouldnt surround police officers and give them reasons to self defence, we wouldnt be having this issues.

"Self defence".. that's funny lol

I agree with Travis for the most part, although I do believe that some of the protesters should do a bit of research so they know exactly what they are protesting for.



edit: image is bigger then I thought, my bad

[Frizzle]

Define severely crippled? Scott Olson of the Oakland protests was shot in the head with a tear gas cannister, suffering a fractured skull and swelling of the brain, which could have been fatal quite easily.

I can think of quite a few other less serious injuries, though the pregnant woman that miscarriaged, alledgedly a result of the police brutality during the NYC protests should be mentioned, considering kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach can be considered homicide.

Having a fractured skull is not being severely crippled. It's unfortunate and can lead to serious damage but is not in the basis of being "crippled".

Also you're making the assumption that firing tear gas at rioters is illegal/unjust/immoral. If that's that the case I hope you don't ever end up on the receiving end. I guess you're also making the assumption that firing the canister was deliberately aimed at his head. You of course know exactly what was going through that police officers head at the time.

If someone is proving enough of a threat to officers, you get taken down. Regardless of circumstance, officer safety is priority over anything else. Full stop. I couldn't care less if someone was pregnant (one could say why she was engaging in such activities when so vulnerable) if she was being a high risk factor.

It obviously means a lot more justifying in the courts but my safety and my colleagues safety come before an idiots emotion driven act of violence.

But then pigs are all fascists and won't let you smoke your weed.

I thought the Occupy movement would gain enough momentum to make a substantive at one point, but, they fell at the first hurdle and it became us vs them with the police and degenerated to throwing a temper tantrum when they couldn't get their own selfish ways.

Oh well, I hope you truly fight the inequalities of your lower-middle class life's from your IMacs, Starbucks and university degrees whilst still maintaining the fact you are part of the 12% of the population considered rich and making a desireable income against the 88% who barely make $2 a day.

Also ignoring the fact that the US still has one of the highest % of employed people and has the highest GPD and annual inncome.

You guys really have it bad.


...cunts.

Edit: Sorry, just read the fact that you used the fucking Guardian as a reliable news source. How dense can some people be? Going from one extremism of right-wing Fox, (ironically you use it as a reliable source to cite homicide cases) to the ultra left-wing Guardian. Unless of course you're using that as a media source because it supports your own misguided views?

.....and some people call me cynical.

[Melchoire]

Having a fractured skull is not being severely crippled. It's unfortunate and can lead to serious damage but is not in the basis of being "crippled".

Also you're making the assumption that firing tear gas at rioters is illegal/unjust/immoral. If that's that the case I hope you don't ever end up on the receiving end. I guess you're also making the assumption that firing the canister was deliberately aimed at his head. You of course know exactly what was going through that police officers head at the time.

If someone is proving enough of a threat to officers, you get taken down. Regardless of circumstance, officer safety is priority over anything else. Full stop. I couldn't care less if someone was pregnant (one could say why she was engaging in such activities when so vulnerable) if she was being a high risk factor.

It obviously means a lot more justifying in the courts but my safety and my colleagues safety come before an idiots emotion driven act of violence.

But then pigs are all fascists and won't let you smoke your weed.

I thought the Occupy movement would gain enough momentum to make a substantive at one point, but, they fell at the first hurdle and it became us vs them with the police and degenerated to throwing a temper tantrum when they couldn't get their own selfish ways.

Oh well, I hope you truly fight the inequalities of your lower-middle class life's from your IMacs, Starbucks and university degrees whilst still maintaining the fact you are part of the 12% of the population considered rich and making a desireable income against the 88% who barely make $2 a day.

Also ignoring the fact that the US still has one of the highest % of employed people and has the highest GPD and annual inncome.

You guys really have it bad.


...cunts.

Edit: Sorry, just read the fact that you used the fucking Guardian as a reliable news source. How dense can some people be? Going from one extremism of right-wing Fox, (ironically you use it as a reliable source to cite homicide cases) to the ultra left-wing Guardian. Unless of course you're using that as a media source because it supports your own misguided views?

.....and some people call me cynical.

If you saw the video with Scott getting injured you'd probably side with the protesters on that one. Once he had fallen a crowd of people rushed around to carry him away but some riot cop launched a "flash bang"(weaker version of a real one I think) into the crowd too. To me that's just down-right despicable...

You sound like you have a lot of solidarity for the police in this situation but you have to remember there are bad cops too just like the bad protesters...good discussion otherwise, you make a very good point.

[Bone]

im sorry, as usaul, im pro american and i feel these people are hopeless and i DO NOT support them, NOR do i hate them. I just dont wish for them to get anywhere. They are full of fail and they are making fools of there movement, it takes one bad apple to ruin a batch, and its spoiled.


moveon, nothing to see here.@travis statement, if people wouldnt surround police officers and give them reasons to self defence, we wouldnt be having this issues.
I will NEVER support a group who leaves trash like this, pathetic excuses for a movement if you ask me.

http://www.buzzfeed....e-tons-of-trash

Michele? Is that you?

[Jakerz]

There's plenty of times when police used unnecessary force on protesters, such as the time they speared the petite girl with their batons for no apparent reason, just as there are many times when stupid protesters decide to escalate to violence with police. The problem I have with the situation is it seems to be a double standard, police can beat up some protesters pretty bad and worst case scenario get suspended WITH pay, where if someone beats up a cop in a similar situation, they're going to jail.

[Frizzle]

If you saw the video with Scott getting injured you'd probably side with the protesters on that one. Once he had fallen a crowd of people rushed around to carry him away but some riot cop launched a "flash bang"(weaker version of a real one I think) into the crowd too. To me that's just down-right despicable...

You sound like you have a lot of solidarity for the police in this situation but you have to remember there are bad cops too just like the bad protesters...good discussion otherwise, you make a very good point.

I've seen that video and in the officers defence he was at the back and probably had no idea that he was throwing it at an injured party. If he did, I agree completely.

Yes, they're bad cops. You only have to deal with them temporarily though. Imagine working with them!

I've dealt with arseholes who intentionally wind people up, cut corners and are generally obnoxious, stuck up pricks. I have to work with these people, who give ME a bad name, day in day out. It's awful and and I hope they get a job they're more suited to. Like a rape victim/facetiousness

I just hate the hypocriscy that one cops decision makes the whole force or all cops unjust or brutal. Apply to any race/sexuality/group of people you'll be up in arms. Cops are a free ride.

Also, what you classify as brutality isn't necessairly isn't.

I'll tell you a couple of stories from my job.

One day a 6'3, 200lb guy beat two security guards with a knuckle duster and put him in hospital before running off. He got cornered and jumped by about 5 officers, kicked out and got the skipper in the head full blast (it was ok though, he's a dick) and so more officers were called.

Anyway, we believed he may of been under the influence of excited delirium which for a TL;DR version is where you get extra strength/adrenaline from high emotion/drug abuse/psychosis or a mixture. I've seen small girls fight off people twice their size. So this 6'3 beast was not going down. More officers called, in total 12, to put him down.

Now police don't smash someone to the floor and sit on them. They have people carefully pin down every part of the body so they can't hurt anyone and the subject can still breath easily, which is why it takes a lot of people! It can look overpowering to see 12 guys on one.

Some old bitch comes up to me and says "blah blah police brutality, too many police" etc... I felt like saying "Come say that to me when he smashes your face in with a knuckle duster". /end

Another story. Some people saw me push a slim, shorter then me girl to the floor. Hard. I'm also a big 6'0 guy so people were getting the arse. I'm a bully who likes to push around little girls.

What people didn't know was that she squared up to me, clenched her jaw and fists and tensed her muscles. She was going to smack me and it was going to hurt. If anyone hits you in the face, especially one as pretty as mine, it will hurt. So I pre-emptively pushed her to the floor to gain contr of the situation and defend myself. Apparently I'm supposed to let drunk girls wollop me in the face because I'm a pig.

So, there we go. Misguided opinions and conceptions. It happens and it annoys me to take something as seriously as police brutality and trivialise it, in same was as the race card.

There's plenty of times when police used unnecessary force on protesters, such as the time they speared the petite girl with their batons for no apparent reason, just as there are many times when stupid protesters decide to escalate to violence with police. The problem I have with the situation is it seems to be a double standard, police can beat up some protesters pretty bad and worst case scenario get suspended WITH pay, where if someone beats up a cop in a similar situation, they're going to jail.

That's not your decision to say if something is just or unjust. That's for the officer to justify and the courts to judge.

The difference between you getting and a cop getting punished is huge. You would get a night in the cells, a fine, maybe a short week in prison.

As an officer, I will lose my job, my money, my home, my family, spend a longer time in prison due to an abuse of position and be segregated without a chance of getting back into my career. Police skills aren't really transferable either so if you are an old sweat and spent years in the job, it'll be hard to find another job without the experience.

Just in case you didn't know, police don't fend too well in prison either. And we have to deal with this shit and risk every fucking day.

[luvsmyncis]

Dealing with police is something to be expected if you're going to go out and protest, tbh.

The problem I have with the situation is it seems to be a double standard, police can beat up some protesters pretty bad and worst case scenario get suspended WITH pay, where if someone beats up a cop in a similar situation, they're going to jail.

You sound like this dude that was in my student orientation class when I went to school a million years ago. He was mad that you weren't allowed to ride your bike on campus. His argument was the college police were allowed to ride bikes. WHY DO THEY THINK THEY'RE ABOVE THE LAW? It was the most ridiculous argument I ever heard. Duh, it's part of his job to ride the bike, just like it's his job to remove people from loitering on public property. With force if necessary. I don't think the police are always right, but they're not our enemies. I never really understood all the hate they get. I'm just a harmless law abiding citizen.

The part about Frizzle's pretty face made me laugh.
And that old lady could have been hopping up and down with her shirt lifted screaming "SPRING BREAK!" while her ancient titties swayed like pendulums to and fro... I still feel bad that she got pepper sprayed.

[Jakerz]

That's not your decision to say if something is just or unjust. That's for the officer to justify and the courts to judge.

The difference between you getting and a cop getting punished is huge. You would get a night in the cells, a fine, maybe a short week in prison.

As an officer, I will lose my job, my money, my home, my family, spend a longer time in prison due to an abuse of position and be segregated without a chance of getting back into my career. Police skills aren't really transferable either so if you are an old sweat and spent years in the job, it'll be hard to find another job without the experience.

That's what I'm saying, it seems like the judges almost always rule in the cops favor(atleast around where I live). They get suspended with pay normally, not a big deal, nice little vacation for them. Obviously I'm not talking about accidents where someones arm is broken after being tackled because he was fleeing a crime or whatever, but when it's obvious the cop used too much force, they should be punished. When they're not punished they're just going to keep doing it. Another problem I have is when cops don't do their job right and nothing happens.
For example, last year my friend got hit by a car and died while walking down the road at night. The cops that responded told the driver "they were in his corner", didn't take a breathalyzer even though the driver admitted to having a few drinks earlier in the night, and drove the car back to the station themselves. The driver got off with no charges, and nothing happened to the cops (although the family is taking them to court at the moment). If I screw up that bad at my job, I get fired, and their aren't lives at stake in my job. I understand people make mistakes sometimes, but that's a big mistake to make.

You sound like this dude that was in my student orientation class when I went to school a million years ago. He was mad that you weren't allowed to ride your bike on campus. His argument was the college police were allowed to ride bikes. WHY DO THEY THINK THEY'RE ABOVE THE LAW? It was the most ridiculous argument I ever heard. Duh, it's part of his job to ride the bike, just like it's his job to remove people from loitering on public property. With force if necessary. I don't think the police are always right, but they're not our enemies. I never really understood all the hate they get. I'm just a harmless law abiding citizen.

Naw, I'm not an idiot, I'd have no problem with cops riding bikes around campus. It's not part of a cops job to beat the crap out of people who don't deserve it. I have no problem with cops in general, I have many friends who are cops, my best friends dad is the chief of police in my city, it's the cops who let the power get to their head that I have a problem with. In fact I actually use to look up to cops, like I do for firefighters, just too many bad experiences I guess. I feel bad for Frizzle, like he said he's got to work with the ones who are giving cops a bad name.