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Occupy Protests: Helpful or not?


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#26 Melchoire

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:41 PM

I've seen that video and in the officers defence he was at the back and probably had no idea that he was throwing it at an injured party. If he did, I agree completely.

Yes, they're bad cops. You only have to deal with them temporarily though. Imagine working with them!

I've dealt with arseholes who intentionally wind people up, cut corners and are generally obnoxious, stuck up pricks. I have to work with these people, who give ME a bad name, day in day out. It's awful and and I hope they get a job they're more suited to. Like a rape victim/facetiousness

I just hate the hypocriscy that one cops decision makes the whole force or all cops unjust or brutal. Apply to any race/sexuality/group of people you'll be up in arms. Cops are a free ride.

Also, what you classify as brutality isn't necessairly isn't.

I'll tell you a couple of stories from my job.

One day a 6'3, 200lb guy beat two security guards with a knuckle duster and put him in hospital before running off. He got cornered and jumped by about 5 officers, kicked out and got the skipper in the head full blast (it was ok though, he's a dick) and so more officers were called.

Anyway, we believed he may of been under the influence of excited delirium which for a TL;DR version is where you get extra strength/adrenaline from high emotion/drug abuse/psychosis or a mixture. I've seen small girls fight off people twice their size. So this 6'3 beast was not going down. More officers called, in total 12, to put him down.

Now police don't smash someone to the floor and sit on them. They have people carefully pin down every part of the body so they can't hurt anyone and the subject can still breath easily, which is why it takes a lot of people! It can look overpowering to see 12 guys on one.

Some old bitch comes up to me and says "blah blah police brutality, too many police" etc... I felt like saying "Come say that to me when he smashes your face in with a knuckle duster". /end

Another story. Some people saw me push a slim, shorter then me girl to the floor. Hard. I'm also a big 6'0 guy so people were getting the arse. I'm a bully who likes to push around little girls.

What people didn't know was that she squared up to me, clenched her jaw and fists and tensed her muscles. She was going to smack me and it was going to hurt. If anyone hits you in the face, especially one as pretty as mine, it will hurt. So I pre-emptively pushed her to the floor to gain contr of the situation and defend myself. Apparently I'm supposed to let drunk girls wollop me in the face because I'm a pig.

So, there we go. Misguided opinions and conceptions. It happens and it annoys me to take something as seriously as police brutality and trivialise it, in same was as the race card.


Alright, your stance seems more sensible now. I always try to consider both sides of the scuffles but I guess I'm little more biased in favor of civilians.

Cool story btw, if you have anymore, I'd love to hear them...

#27 MsRose

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:06 PM

OWS tends to get under my skin, and maybe it's my fault for letting it.

I really appreciate what we do have in this country. We may not be all wiping our butts with 100$ bills, but we have so many opportunities to make what we want for ourselves. Even "poor" in this country is a misunderstood term. Most people would define poor as "an inability to provide a family with adequate nutritious food, reasonable shelter and clothing". Yet, the typical household considered “poor” by census officials "has a car and air conditioning. For entertainment, the household has cable or satellite TV, two color televisions, a DVD player and a VCR. If children (especially boys) are in the home, they have a video game system such as Xbox or PlayStation. In the kitchen, the household has the ordinary conveniences: refrigerator, oven, stove, microwave. Half the poor now have a personal computer. A third have a widescreen TV (plasma or LCD); a quarter have a digital video recorder such as TiVo." This is because of the mass support our government gives to those living in what we consider "poverty" (those who make under 22,350$ annually). From 2000 - 2010 the government has given more than a trillion dollars to support those living in poverty.

I'm not sure if anyone has been watching the news, but there is a standoff in China between a few thousand Chinese villagers and Chinese authorities because the government has been illegally seizing their land and giving it to businesses to develop on. Many of the protesters are scared for their life, considering one man who was taken into police custody was beaten to death, but they protest anyways.

I don't think OWS protestors or heroes and I don't think they're people to aspire to. I think they're causing an even deeper rift in this country between "right" and "left". They're pointing fingers at the "right" media and the "right" government. Maybe if we stopped classifying ourselves with such black and white colors and were less focused on political warfare, we could do some good for the country. Until then, we might as well just stand idly by and watch the tug-of-war.

#28 Therion

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 12:16 AM

OWS tends to get under my skin, and maybe it's my fault for letting it.

I really appreciate what we do have in this country. We may not be all wiping our butts with 100$ bills, but we have so many opportunities to make what we want for ourselves. Even "poor" in this country is a misunderstood term. Most people would define poor as "an inability to provide a family with adequate nutritious food, reasonable shelter and clothing". Yet, the typical household considered “poor” by census officials "has a car and air conditioning. For entertainment, the household has cable or satellite TV, two color televisions, a DVD player and a VCR. If children (especially boys) are in the home, they have a video game system such as Xbox or PlayStation. In the kitchen, the household has the ordinary conveniences: refrigerator, oven, stove, microwave. Half the poor now have a personal computer. A third have a widescreen TV (plasma or LCD); a quarter have a digital video recorder such as TiVo." This is because of the mass support our government gives to those living in what we consider "poverty" (those who make under 22,350$ annually). From 2000 - 2010 the government has given more than a trillion dollars to support those living in poverty.

I'm not sure if anyone has been watching the news, but there is a standoff in China between a few thousand Chinese villagers and Chinese authorities because the government has been illegally seizing their land and giving it to businesses to develop on. Many of the protesters are scared for their life, considering one man who was taken into police custody was beaten to death, but they protest anyways.

I don't think OWS protestors or heroes and I don't think they're people to aspire to. I think they're causing an even deeper rift in this country between "right" and "left". They're pointing fingers at the "right" media and the "right" government. Maybe if we stopped classifying ourselves with such black and white colors and were less focused on political warfare, we could do some good for the country. Until then, we might as well just stand idly by and watch the tug-of-war.


Last I checked poor in western countries was having your house foreclosed on by BANK NAME HERE (of which they're happening in record numbers) and being offered a pittance to burn the stuff you can't fit in your car. The disparity between the rich and poor (poor being inclusive of 'middle class' in this instance) is increasing and has been doing so rather quickly since the 80's. If you're living with a car, a comfortable home and can afford luxuries like expensive televisions you're not poor in a sense of poverty, but up until recently most of your country didn't have access to decent health care and some still don't. This also isn't about people being poor, it's about politics dedicated to earning more money for corporate interests rather than ADDRESSING social and economic problems for the good of your country.

The argument that people shouldn't complain because it could be worse, is severely flawed. By that logic, nobody should ever complain ever. There is always the possibility for things to get worse, and I for one would like to see things get better.

Having a fractured skull is not being severely crippled. It's unfortunate and can lead to serious damage but is not in the basis of being "crippled".

Also you're making the assumption that firing tear gas at rioters is illegal/unjust/immoral. If that's that the case I hope you don't ever end up on the receiving end. I guess you're also making the assumption that firing the canister was deliberately aimed at his head. You of course know exactly what was going through that police officers head at the time.

If someone is proving enough of a threat to officers, you get taken down. Regardless of circumstance, officer safety is priority over anything else. Full stop. I couldn't care less if someone was pregnant (one could say why she was engaging in such activities when so vulnerable) if she was being a high risk factor.

It obviously means a lot more justifying in the courts but my safety and my colleagues safety come before an idiots emotion driven act of violence.

But then pigs are all fascists and won't let you smoke your weed.

I thought the Occupy movement would gain enough momentum to make a substantive at one point, but, they fell at the first hurdle and it became us vs them with the police and degenerated to throwing a temper tantrum when they couldn't get their own selfish ways.

Oh well, I hope you truly fight the inequalities of your lower-middle class life's from your IMacs, Starbucks and university degrees whilst still maintaining the fact you are part of the 12% of the population considered rich and making a desireable income against the 88% who barely make $2 a day.

Also ignoring the fact that the US still has one of the highest % of employed people and has the highest GPD and annual inncome.

You guys really have it bad.


...cunts.

Edit: Sorry, just read the fact that you used the fucking Guardian as a reliable news source. How dense can some people be? Going from one extremism of right-wing Fox, (ironically you use it as a reliable source to cite homicide cases) to the ultra left-wing Guardian. Unless of course you're using that as a media source because it supports your own misguided views?

.....and some people call me cynical.


I'd consider hospitalised for a fractured skull severely crippled. You don't have to be permanently paralyzed to be crippled. But I'm not here to argue definitions.

Tear gas is perfectly just, when protestors turn to rioters. Clearly you can see the imminent danger those police are facing. They could have been killed. As for an assumption of a gas cannister deliberately aimed at the head, not once did I say that, nor does it being an accident make it acceptable when the victim in question was just standing around. If your argument is twisting what I say into assumptions and making arrogant guesses at my life choices then perhaps it's no wonder you work in law enforcement.

As for the argument that your safety comes first, that is not the job of a public servant. You think a firefighter would try that shit? I admire the police in my country, as they're not even allowed to carry guns under regular circumstances. Know why I admire them? Because that's fuckin' courage, doing your part to keep people safe without demands of self preservation.

#29 MsRose

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 12:35 AM

Last I checked poor in western countries was having your house foreclosed on by BANK NAME HERE (of which they're happening in record numbers) and being offered a pittance to burn the stuff you can't fit in your car. The disparity between the rich and poor (poor being inclusive of 'middle class' in this instance) is increasing and has been doing so rather quickly since the 80's. If you're living with a car, a comfortable home and can afford luxuries like expensive televisions you're not poor in a sense of poverty, but up until recently most of your country didn't have access to decent health care and some still don't. This also isn't about people being poor, it's about politics dedicated to earning more money for corporate interests rather than ADDRESSING social and economic problems for the good of your country.

The argument that people shouldn't complain because it could be worse, is severely flawed. By that logic, nobody should ever complain ever. There is always the possibility for things to get worse, and I for one would like to see things get better.


My point wasn't that we shouldn't complain, but that we're overly-dramatizing what we're complaining about.

Me and my fiancee live well below the poverty line (under 19,000 annually) we rent our apartment, have a wii & xbox, two fully functional cars, a 42" wide screen t.v, two very nice computer and extra money to go around. Even though we could get bundles of government money we choose not to out of principle, because we know there are people in greater need than ourselves. Also, this has everything to do with "poverty". Considering their largest argument is that there isn't a large enough distribution of wealth.

Personally, I think you need to turn off your T.V. I'm so sick of all this hyped up sensationalism.

#30 Charli

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:05 AM

That's not your decision to say if something is just or unjust. That's for the officer to justify and the courts to judge.


I don't know what you mean. Officers and judges are the only ones allowed to decide whether they think something is just or unjust? Citizens are allowed to have opinions too. In fact I'm pretty sure (if i remember my school house rock correctly) that citizens can even vote and change laws, depending on what they consider right or wrong.

The difference between you getting and a cop getting punished is huge. You would get a night in the cells, a fine, maybe a short week in prison.

As an officer, I will lose my job, my money, my home, my family, spend a longer time in prison due to an abuse of position and be segregated without a chance of getting back into my career. Police skills aren't really transferable either so if you are an old sweat and spent years in the job, it'll be hard to find another job without the experience.

Just in case you didn't know, police don't fend too well in prison either. And we have to deal with this shit and risk every fucking day.


I'm pretty sure assaulting an officer, which is automatically a federal crime, would lead to more than a fine or a short week in prison. And I don't know a lot of people that are able to take their family, home, and job with them when they go to prison, so I wouldn't really say a cop losing his job has it a lot worse.
And in the case of the officer pepper spraying peaceful protesters at UC davis, he was suspended with pay, he didn't lose his job, home, and family. And absolutely nothing was done about occupy seattle. So even if there are laws that cops are held to a higher standard and punished more severely for abusing their position, they are obviously not being enforced. These cops aren't being charged with anything, let alone being subject to a harsher punishment.

And obviously a cop that uses his/her position to abuse innocent people doesn't have a "chance of getting back into my career." Thats common sense, not a harsh punishment. Its not even a punishment, being an officer is a privilege, not right.

#31 Bone

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 02:58 AM

I don't think OWS protestors or heroes and I don't think they're people to aspire to. I think they're causing an even deeper rift in this country between "right" and "left". They're pointing fingers at the "right" media and the "right" government. Maybe if we stopped classifying ourselves with such black and white colors and were less focused on political warfare, we could do some good for the country. Until then, we might as well just stand idly by and watch the tug-of-war.


Maybe that's because while the left is also fucking useless, the Republican party is one of the most backward parties in the developed world.

The only real solution is the systematic destruction of the party, but the candidates this primary season are doing a great job with that on their own.

#32 onlyme

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 04:20 AM

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#33 Amagius

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 10:31 AM

OWS tends to get under my skin, and maybe it's my fault for letting it.

I really appreciate what we do have in this country. We may not be all wiping our butts with 100$ bills, but we have so many opportunities to make what we want for ourselves. Even "poor" in this country is a misunderstood term. Most people would define poor as "an inability to provide a family with adequate nutritious food, reasonable shelter and clothing". Yet, the typical household considered “poor” by census officials "has a car and air conditioning. For entertainment, the household has cable or satellite TV, two color televisions, a DVD player and a VCR. If children (especially boys) are in the home, they have a video game system such as Xbox or PlayStation. In the kitchen, the household has the ordinary conveniences: refrigerator, oven, stove, microwave. Half the poor now have a personal computer. A third have a widescreen TV (plasma or LCD); a quarter have a digital video recorder such as TiVo." This is because of the mass support our government gives to those living in what we consider "poverty" (those who make under 22,350$ annually). From 2000 - 2010 the government has given more than a trillion dollars to support those living in poverty.

I'm not sure if anyone has been watching the news, but there is a standoff in China between a few thousand Chinese villagers and Chinese authorities because the government has been illegally seizing their land and giving it to businesses to develop on. Many of the protesters are scared for their life, considering one man who was taken into police custody was beaten to death, but they protest anyways.

I don't think OWS protestors or heroes and I don't think they're people to aspire to. I think they're causing an even deeper rift in this country between "right" and "left". They're pointing fingers at the "right" media and the "right" government. Maybe if we stopped classifying ourselves with such black and white colors and were less focused on political warfare, we could do some good for the country. Until then, we might as well just stand idly by and watch the tug-of-war.


I agree with your first paragraph, but the debate is framed politically--not really about elements of actual scarcity. The political debate, like you said, is one boring, superficial game of tug-of-war. Still, the fiscal income inequality is not to be ignored. We have a lot of right and privilege in the United States, but it isn't because of General Electric or Viacom. Our culture is not Ronald McDonald and we are great because of our collective. Because of that, I hate that some suffer exhausting costs while others are buffered from hardship without any great social offering.

The economic crisis is serious. Until we tweak our conceptual model of a modern economy or correct the current deflationary nature of the market, our economic situation will flounder. There is no confident reason to invest in anything innovative and potentially profitable as so few mass consumer markets have the demand (i.e. we don't need all that much shit); the monetary interest rates are near or at 0%--Free money! Go do something! Very few people have the confidence to do something like that when we most need it. Money's going worthless.

We should stop framing this politically, perhaps, for the time being. We shouldn't just stand idly by and watch the field day games. Maybe with Occupy Wall St. as a vehicle, we can convince the majority that tug-of-war is a stupid game and we should adopt Cricket or Basketball instead. We need some democratic type of force to enact major change.


#34 davidh93

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 12:46 PM

not, watch this video


#35 anbeezy

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:25 PM

I agree with what they stand for but I can see why some people might disagree with this movement. My main concern is over the ridiculous cost of tuition for attending colleges in a place where higher education is of the utmost importance. College debt, currently, is higher than credit card debt. There have been some Occupy people on my campus lately and they have been acting in accordance of what our Chancellor has ordered. I'm honestly just glad that people are becoming more aware of the situation our country is in. Also, many of these people are doing what other people don't have the balls to do. If you think what they're fighting for isn't affecting you, it's time for a reality check because this very much concerns you, your future, and if you have kids, their future too. Tuition for the UC system in California is seeing ridiculous hikes, for example. College is a right, not a privilege. Seems like we've lost sight of that seeing as the education budget seems to slashed every year.

#36 verse

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:20 PM

The occupy movement in my city/country is largely unfounded and made up of the people who attend Marijuana March; hippies are camping.


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