46 replies to this topic

[McAwesome]

Apple, one of the largest companies in the world, has been around since the 1980s. They became big when Steve Jobs came up with the revolutionary idea of the iPod, a device that will dwarf the Sony Walkman. 

In 2011, Apple was one of the most profitable companies in the world.

Most people do not realize, however, how much Apple cares about human rights. They do not. Apple's resident manufacturer, FoxConn, makes workers work more than 12 hour shifts a day with minimum wage. The average worker earns less than $5 USD a day. They live on campus in shared rooms. This makes them available 24/7. This isn't right.

Many workers get stressed out because of these conditions. This leads to mass suicide within their campus.
 
What are your views on this matter? 

Edited by McAwesome, 24 May 2012 - 04:16 PM.

[Elindoril]

Well, at least they're not killing themselves as much these days.

[NapisaurusRex]

This is one of the reasons jobs should stay in America.

[Bone]

This is one of the reasons jobs should stay in America.

Yes. Why go all the way to China to exploit workers when you can do it in your own backyard?

[NapisaurusRex]

Yes. Why go all the way to China to exploit workers when you can do it in your own backyard?

Because it saves gas, duh.

[Melchoire]

The worst fucking part is how ridiculously overpriced their shit is.

But this is the price someone has to pay for our luxurious lives. Unfortunately it's not always us...

Well, at least they're killing themselves as much these days.

You accidentally a word.

[Kway]

Because it saves gas, duh.

They use gas to transport the stuff to and from China?

[NapisaurusRex]

They use gas to transport the stuff to and from China?

It doesn't teleport?

Maybe I'm confused about what FoxConn does. Hang on.

Edit:

'

This map indicates that there is a global distribution system and that a lot of our (US, Aus, and UK) product from FoxConn is imported from China. Since FoxConn specializes in a tangible product, there is some type of fuel that transports the product from China. I have no idea what would be exported there to make these products, besides executives.

Edited by Napiform, 24 May 2012 - 04:50 PM.

[Elindoril]

You accidentally a word.

So I did.

[luvsmyncis]

Yes. Why go all the way to China to exploit workers when you can do it in your own backyard?

Because they're used to it in China. I found the number of suicides alarming, but upon further inspection, it looks like it's not unusual for the Chinese to off themselves.
http://www.who.int/m...icide_rates/en/
There are even MORE suicides in the Republic of Korea, and none of those people work at Foxconn. And many Chinese people who DON'T work for Foxconn are killing themselves anyway.

I'm not saying that working in a factory 12 hours a day, for 6 days a week is a walk in the park. These people have it hard. That's life. You can't blame Apple for LIFE. Ipods aren't the only devices these people are churning out for a handful of cash a day. Why hate just the one company? They make Nintendo, Motorola phones, Sony and Hewlett Packer shit, as well. Stop buying these products, too, if you're so concerned about human welfare.

And the reason these jobs are out there in China and Taiwan is BECAUSE those people are willing to sit in a line and work for $5 an hour. Build a factory like that in Kansas and tell the people they'll be working 12 hours, 6 days a week, for under $15 an hour and they'll refuse- whereas in China, 50,000 little Boggarts will come clamoring for the position.

Build a factory like that in South Texas, I guarantee you'll fill it fast with brown people willing to work for cheap. They might not even kill themselves. Beans and rice are pretty inexpensive, and that's all we seem to ever need.The only thing is 75% of them aren't here legally.

By the way, I don't like Macs because I don't know how to click and drag shit on their laptops.

[Random]

Profits >

[iargue]

Because they're used to it in China. I found the number of suicides alarming, but upon further inspection, it looks like it's not unusual for the Chinese to off themselves.
http://www.who.int/m...icide_rates/en/
There are even MORE suicides in the Republic of Korea, and none of those people work at Foxconn. And many Chinese people who DON'T work for Foxconn are killing themselves anyway.

I'm not saying that working in a factory 12 hours a day, for 6 days a week is a walk in the park. These people have it hard. That's life. You can't blame Apple for LIFE. Ipods aren't the only devices these people are churning out for a handful of cash a day. Why hate just the one company? They make Nintendo, Motorola phones, Sony and Hewlett Packer shit, as well. Stop buying these products, too, if you're so concerned about human welfare.

And the reason these jobs are out there in China and Taiwan is BECAUSE those people are willing to sit in a line and work for $5 an hour. Build a factory like that in Kansas and tell the people they'll be working 12 hours, 6 days a week, for under $15 an hour and they'll refuse- whereas in China, 50,000 little Boggarts will come clamoring for the position.

Build a factory like that in South Texas, I guarantee you'll fill it fast with brown people willing to work for cheap. They might not even kill themselves. Beans and rice are pretty inexpensive, and that's all we seem to ever need.The only thing is 75% of them aren't here legally.

By the way, I don't like Macs because I don't know how to click and drag shit on their laptops.

There is a much bigger difference of a suicide and a suicide for a reason.

Foxconn makes products for many companies. Yes. But they have factories that make just Apple's products. That is where the suicide's are happening. At their HP and Nintendo factories.if any employees kill themselves, they do it at home and away from there. At apple's factories. They purposely kill themselves to make a point. They jump from the rooftop to make a giant splash. They had to install safety nets to prevent it from happening. It's a blatant suicide to make a point. That says "THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG HERE". The other Foxconn plants have threatened suicide to improve their working conditions. Apple's plant is the one that actually started the suicide to make a point system.

There are also plenty of other reasons to hate Apple.

1)Corruption
2)Copyright Abuse
3)Price hiking
4)Lying in advertising
5)Monopoly


So even if you discredit their workers suicides as just the normal thing for china, you can always pick another reason to hate on them. Not like it changes anything.

[NapisaurusRex]

There is a much bigger difference of a suicide and a suicide for a reason.

People don't usually go committing suicide willy-nilly. Even killing yourself for fun is still a reason.

[iargue]

People don't usually go committing suicide willy-nilly. Even killing yourself for fun is still a reason.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

If you commit suicide because you are sad, or unhappy. You do it at home. And just end things.

If you commit suicide because you were abused, or mistreated. You do it where people can see. Where people will take notice. You do it to be heard. Thousands of suicides happen at home where no one even knows except the police when investigating. These suicides did not happen like that.

[iargue]

I don't think people realize how much almost every successful corporation in America (even before all of this "shipping jobs overseas" became a huge issue like 8-10 years go) get most of their product and sell it to us from China, Thialand, Philippines, etc. Almost every "discount store" like Gordmans, TJ Maxx, Marshalls, etc. Old Navy, Gap, Banana Republic, Aeropostale, Hollister, A&F, American Eagle....the list goes on and on. It's been happening for ages and no one started to care until recently and even so, people still don't give a damn, not enough to stop giving these companies their money.

As for Apple, while I own an iPhone (and am slowly starting to hate it but hate all of the alternatives that exist more, so I'm stuck with it), I'm not a big fan of Apple.

I'm extremely with my Samsung Infuse 4g. It does absolutely everything I want from it, and I can install 3rd party apps without jailbreaking it.

[Mishatu]

I'm extremely with my Samsung Infuse 4g. It does absolutely everything I want from it, and I can install 3rd party apps without jailbreaking it.

Looks like you accidentally a word. An important one.

[WharfRat]

Well.... FoxConn actually pays at a higher rate than most factory jobs in China... You can read articles about when FoxConn had to cut the amount of overtime that they offered and tons of workers were very upset because they wanted the opportunity to make the extra money... Yes, working standards are much lower in China. Yes, my any western standard they are grossly underpaid. Apple is not the only company to outsource.... Not even close. In fact, it's hard to find any major company (that is profitable) that does not outsource whatsoever. If you don't like it, I suggest you change corporate tax structures and relax the stance on immigration in the USA. OTOH, you can expect food prices to skyrocket when those manual labor jobs out in the fields now pay 8x what they do now.

Also, If you don't like the outsourcing, don't buy any product that states anything but "Made in the USA." Expect to pay 2x as much for it as well.

[Ormagoden]

There must be a reason why the workers are willing to take the job in the first place right?

[McAwesome]

There must be a reason why the workers are willing to take the job in the first place right?

Desperation to find a job. In China, there is a butt load of competition, especially in job searching.


The presence of iargue in this thread just made me feel special.

[Ormagoden]

Desperation to find a job. In China, there is a butt load of competition, especially in job searching.


The presence of iargue in this thread just made me feel special.

Exactly. At least these workers get paid unlike some companies in india where they use child labour, working the same hours but with little or no pay at all.

[Noitidart]

Well, at least they're not killing themselves as much these days.

LOL you dick!

[NapisaurusRex]

OTOH, you can expect food prices to skyrocket when those manual labor jobs out in the fields now pay 8x what they do now.

Food prices are going to skyrocket anyway. We pretty much skipped winter over here.

[McAwesome]

Exactly. At least these workers get paid unlike some companies in india where they use child labour, working the same hours but with little or no pay at all.

That is true. But the workers in China get paid very very little.

[iargue]

Well.... FoxConn actually pays at a higher rate than most factory jobs in China...

You mean after 14 suicides in a year which made apple look bad, which made apple join the fair labor association, which in turn forced foxconn to improve their working condition?

If there had never been any spotlight on the situation, they would still be one of the worse off companies out there. And your belief that moving it here would force the prices to be raised is incorrect, it would simply reduce the profit margin that they expect to recieve. Apple makes over 450% profit on their iphone, if they changed the production to here, they would probably only make 250%. Its better to outsource so they can make a bit more money. The only problem is that they don't understand that their consumers need jobs to buy their products. They hurt the economy significantly more then they help it.