86 replies to this topic

[Pilot]

As a user who frequently sends illegit scores I'll check if the last person on the table has already received a trophy. If they haven't, I'll aim for another game or return to it the following day. Most of the time they already do and bumping them down to 18th place is unfortunate but necessary.

[RitzWin]

Absolutely not, survival of the fittest. 

 

 

Either you're trolling or a have a horrifically poor understanding of economics and the word communist. 

I made a hasty judgement on your understanding based off your fruitless post, and you did the same to me.  I guess that's fair.

[EggTamer]

I feel like the debate whether or not people have been victimized by Abrosia has already resolved with "fuck it, discussing this isn't worth our time" in a thread over a year old.

 

I did look back a number of pages, and saw nothing. If it was a year ago, then it predated my visiting this site (I have only just registered, and have visited as a guest only within the last few months, and sparingly at that). Feel free to fuck it and not discuss, but it seems that others are discussing just fine.
 

IEssentially it comes down to how you personally define a victim. I don't care about trophies or avatars myself so I don't regard missing out on either of those as being a victim. As for restocking, if we're using your definition then you could also say that legit restockers who don't live in America are victims of the latency difference which makes it more difficult to get good items compared with North American users.

 

Outside factors are not exactly comparable to blatant cheating. I mean, there are so many that you could bring into play, but none of them are reasonable to consider as unfair advantages. And just because you don't care about certain goals, doesn't mean that others don't. And if your actions, through cheating, are preventing someone else from obtaining their goals, then quite simply they are a victim. It is your prerogative to keep victimizing them at that point, but the fact remains that they ARE a victim.

 

Except this is the internet so it doesn't matter if you use a car in a footrace. As long as you reach the finish, correct? The person on foot should, with determination, reach the finish line too. The only difference is that the person on foot can't get in trouble, where you can get in trouble and you are already aware of the consequences.

 

/e to clarify this a little more: You are saying that this is a race, but there is no race. We set goals for ourselves, so it's more of a matter of what you are willing to do and how long you want to take to reach your goals. I understand that you're saying we are stopping people from reaching their goals, but we aren't. If anything we are helping make them the elite, because they will need to increase their gaming, RSing, etc. skills to succeed. The ones who really want to succeed without cheating will get better because they can't progress in the game if they don't.

It was an analogy, so it is not exactly strictly a race with a defined finish line, and only one winner. But it is a game where neopoints are the main 'prize' or means to attain most final goals. So, cheaters are using unfair advantages to obtain the main 'prize', and in doing so are slowing down the legitimate players from obtaining theirs. As far as the race analogy goes, it means that legitimate players might be able to finish in the top 100, much slower and much worse than if there was no cheating, where they should have been able to finish in the top 10. The argument that cheaters are helping people obtain their goals by autobuying things from under their noses is flimsy, and I hope I don't even have to argue that one.

 

The farmer who produces 200 heads of lettuce per year because he uses hand-tools to harvest his crops is hardly becoming a victim of a large business that uses machinery for the same task and produces 200k heads of lettuce.  He's chosen not to invest anything in R&D, for which he pays in our nice Capitalist system .

Except the large business putting money into R&D and producing far above the poor farmer is not doing anything illegal (presumably). The farmer gets the amount of profit and gain from his crops that he rightfully deserves, with the amount of effort and investment that he puts into it. I wish this is how neopets was, then the legit restockers would be the ones rolling in 200k heads of lettuce while the poor cheaters would wallow with their mere 200 .

[Waser Lave]

So where is this discussion supposed to be heading? I think the last time we had a similar thread it just ended up with people saying why they cheat and then the thread creator trying to counter everyone with the morals thing. It didn't go very far.

[Elindoril]

The real question is why should I care about the "victims"?

[Sage]

Because very few of the games are fun, even less so are they fun enough to warrant playing them a billion times over to legitimately obtain $obscene_amount in order to get the shiny digital prize that I personally want. Even if nobody else was cheating, this remains true and a problem, so I don't have the least amount of remorse in cheating my way through that. If the games were actually enjoyable to play or the plots were enjoyable to solve on my own or whatever, it'd be another story entirely, but that's almost never the case.

[Drakonid]

The farmer who produces 200 heads of lettuce per year because he uses hand-tools to harvest his crops is hardly becoming a victim of a large business that uses machinery for the same task and produces 200k heads of lettuce.  He's chosen not to invest anything in R&D, for which he pays in our nice Capitalist system

The analogy would only be valid if the machinery used by the large business was illegal.

[Yung]

Plus, the community is wonderful and the guides here and amazing.

Aww that's a sweet sentiment.

[KaibaSama]

As a user who frequently sends illegit scores I'll check if the last person on the table has already received a trophy. If they haven't, I'll aim for another game or return to it the following day. Most of the time they already do and bumping them down to 18th place is unfortunate but necessary.

That's how I think with games trophies as well. If you already have a trophy (of any color) you won't earn another one (since you already have the trophy) therefore the person isn't losing anything, and thus isn't being "victimized".

(Except for the illegit scores, as i cant do anything since my moms computer is too old to run anything on flash correctly)

[Badger]

I personally don't feel like I'm cheating anyone... rather, I feel like I am able to keep up with the competition and no longer at a disadvantage.

For countries that are far away from TNT servers in America and have slower internet in comparison, Abrosia is the only way to keep up.

I acknowledge I am cheating according to TNT's T&C... but I could not care less about that.

If you think I am cheating other American users (or whoever else has super fast buying speed), then think again... I am only using Abrosia to gain the same speed they have by default. If I weren't using it, they would be the ones with the unfair advantage.

Edited by Trixic, 04 March 2013 - 10:56 PM.

[Cant Stop Me]

Because I get all the bitches with my trophies.

[mintpro]

Because very few of the games are fun, even less so are they fun enough to warrant playing them a billion times over to legitimately obtain $obscene_amount in order to get the shiny digital prize that I personally want. Even if nobody else was cheating, this remains true and a problem, so I don't have the least amount of remorse in cheating my way through that. If the games were actually enjoyable to play or the plots were enjoyable to solve on my own or whatever, it'd be another story entirely, but that's almost never the case.

I agree. Since I started cheating (A(O)Bing etc.) I've been spending more time in neo. By (semi-)automating the boring stuff I'm able to concentrate on the interesting parts of the site.

[DoNotAnnoyMe]

Why do I cheat? Well... I got a real-life and can't hang around all day long trying to get those few NP I need to get <random thing I want atm> (mostly BD stuff), so instead of feeding some reseller or RSer I fire up my ABer and RS the item I want myself (and for that stuff I only go for that item in the shops I go to).

 

And I generally AB with so high buy times that you'd cry if you'd see them (sometimes >10s ); even a legit-RS newcomer that's half-asleep can do better than this. So: I don't feel like I cause any victims because if there'd be someone that'd hang out in those boring shops at the time I do, he'd get the stuff I get

[ceterisparibus]

peer pressure from this forums forced me to it's not my fault  

 

Honestly speaking? I've experienced so many losses(hacks do something about it tdn) throughout my entire playthrough that there's literally no motivation whatsoever to keep going. The fact that so many of us are staying on a site that still uses flash graphics just reflects the irony of the whole thing, that without neocodex so many of us would just pack up and go. 

 

I don't find my conscious being disturbed since i've suffered misses as well. Should I be angry and feel 'morally upset' that someone was just 'better' (or ab) when i don't get what I want? Nope, I simply move on to another day.

[Justpeachy]

I cheat because I view this as a gameshark to neo. I've played legit for years and feel like I got nowhere while everyone got suspiciously better. After making my decent account and getting frozen years ago, I gave up neo then came back after like a 5 years hiatus and decided my hand on neopets again only to find everything skyrocketed in price. So I googled and found this site. So far the only thing I've done is AoB for trophies, I'll eventually move into AB.

[EggTamer]

So where is this discussion supposed to be heading? I think the last time we had a similar thread it just ended up with people saying why they cheat and then the thread creator trying to counter everyone with the morals thing. It didn't go very far.

Honestly, the main purpose is just as asked: I'm wondering WHY people cheat; how they justify it. I guess, as far as replying and countering people, I feel the need to do that if I feel they are fooling themselves into thinking they are doing nothing wrong. I guess it comes down to wanting people to be accountable to their actions, and to realize that they are, in one way or another, harming others and the site.

 

The real question is why should I care about the "victims"?

 

No, the question is still 'why do you cheat', but asking a question back is fair. If you don't care about the victims as it stands, then I don't believe there is any way to make you care. There's no sob stories here, no dying grandmas or starving children at the other end of the screen that you're stealing from (well, okay, there actually MIGHT be, but they aren't going to die or starve more from your actions). It's just other regular people trying to have fun, and if you don't have any compassion or respect for them, then it's beyond me to instill that on you.

 

Because very few of the games are fun, even less so are they fun enough to warrant playing them a billion times over to legitimately obtain $obscene_amount in order to get the shiny digital prize that I personally want. Even if nobody else was cheating, this remains true and a problem, so I don't have the least amount of remorse in cheating my way through that. If the games were actually enjoyable to play or the plots were enjoyable to solve on my own or whatever, it'd be another story entirely, but that's almost never the case.

 

Okay, so maybe this is just one of those things that you never really stopped to think about, but from your comment... I'm trying to figure out why you even bother playing neopets if you hate pretty much all aspects of it? What's the point in obtaining that shiny digital prize, if it's in an environment that you can't stand anyway?

 

I don't use Abrosia, or any of the programs. I can't say I am 100% legit because I utilize the buy/sell forums to trade NC/NP/Pets.
On occasion I have used the programs in the program manager for various reasons, but the main reason I don't cheat (using the programs) is because I don't need to, and because I don't want to be frozen. My primary reason for staying with Codex is the community.

 

I respect this. I mean, you're cheating a bit, but it's a fairly victimless aspect of the site. And you're well aware of your actions and the consequences.

 

I personally don't feel like I'm cheating anyone... rather, I feel like I am able to keep up with the competition and no longer at a disadvantage.

For countries that are far away from TNT servers in America and have slower internet in comparison, Abrosia is the only way to keep up.

I acknowledge I am cheating according to TNT's T&C... but I could not care less about that.

If you think I am cheating other American users (or whoever else has super fast buying speed), then think again... I am only using Abrosia to gain the same speed they have by default. If I weren't using it, they would be the ones with the unfair advantage.

 

This is a slippery slope argument. America (and this goes for all of North America) has pretty slow internet speeds in general, compared to a lot of other places in the world. So, does that mean Americans should be able to cheat, too, to make up for THAT unfair advantage? Or what about within North America... anyone not living in Kansas City (where the lucky bums get google fibe) can justify cheating because they're stuck with their crummy old non-google internet, so they have to compensate. I'm sure everyone could find a similair reason to cheat with very little effort.

 

Because I get all the bitches with my trophies.

 

Can't argue with that, carry on in your noble pursuit!
 

Why do I cheat? Well... I got a real-life and can't hang around all day long trying to get those few NP I need to get <random thing I want atm> (mostly BD stuff), so instead of feeding some reseller or RSer I fire up my ABer and RS the item I want myself (and for that stuff I only go for that item in the shops I go to).

 

And I generally AB with so high buy times that you'd cry if you'd see them (sometimes >10s ); even a legit-RS newcomer that's half-asleep can do better than this. So: I don't feel like I cause any victims because if there'd be someone that'd hang out in those boring shops at the time I do, he'd get the stuff I get

I'm glad you're at least lowering your settings by that much, and as a legit restocker I appreciate it! You're still cheating, but you're definitely doing it a lot more fairly. Kudos.

 

peer pressure from this forums forced me to it's not my fault  

 

Honestly speaking? I've experienced so many losses(hacks do something about it tdn) throughout my entire playthrough that there's literally no motivation whatsoever to keep going. The fact that so many of us are staying on a site that still uses flash graphics just reflects the irony of the whole thing, that without neocodex so many of us would just pack up and go. 

 

I don't find my conscious being disturbed since i've suffered misses as well. Should I be angry and feel 'morally upset' that someone was just 'better' (or ab) when i don't get what I want? Nope, I simply move on to another day.

Well, if you've experienced misses while cheating, you have no right to feel angry. You're cheating, after all. There is no reason whatsoever to feel morally upset, even IF it's a case of someone being a better cheater than you. Be thankful that you aren't iced.

[Waser Lave]

So your sole reason for being here is to post this thread?

[EggTamer]

No. That is the reason I created an account, yes. But I have been on this site before, using the item database or scrolling through forums. If not now, I likely would have created an account at one point or another, for one reason or another.

I am not here to witch hunt, I am just curious. As stated in the first post, I am not beyond temptation as far as cheating goes, but I resisted - so I'm trying to grasp why some of you would not resist and go forward with it. I am not entirely anti-cheating either, I just feel that consequences should be considered when doing so (and not just to yourself, but to others as well). That is why I actually do respect this community, as you guys have taken a firm stance against scamming/hacking/etc.

[Chowder]

Beceuse Neopets f  cked my more then 7 times   .

[Silentqueen]

I cheat to keep up with the competition. I don't live in America, and my internet speed is very slow. Even with Abrosia it's very hard to get some good items, I usually only get 2-3 good ones a day. The country I live in has one of the worst internet connections and they are known for it as well.

 

So the bottom line is, I think that if you ask us, why we cheat, we each have our own reasons... I'm not a psychic or a mind reader, but this really seems to be upsetting you. If it bothers you so much, how on earth do you deal with real life things where not everything is candy and rainbows either?

 

I was on neo for 6 years before I started cheating btw, and do not feel one little bit bad about it.

[Habanero]

Because very few of the games are fun, even less so are they fun enough to warrant playing them a billion times over to legitimately obtain $obscene_amount in order to get the shiny digital prize that I personally want. Even if nobody else was cheating, this remains true and a problem, so I don't have the least amount of remorse in cheating my way through that. If the games were actually enjoyable to play or the plots were enjoyable to solve on my own or whatever, it'd be another story entirely, but that's almost never the case.

This.

Honestly, the only games I like are the Hannah games (Pirate and Ice caves) but they've been broken for a long time and most people can't play them.

[Justpeachy]

Beceuse Neopets f  cked my more then 7 times   .

 

'Nuff said. Damn Neo! lol

[RitzWin]

Surprising how many people (including myself) turned to cheating because TNT wrongfully froze us when we weren't cheating

[Sage]

Okay, so maybe this is just one of those things that you never really stopped to think about, but from your comment... I'm trying to figure out why you even bother playing neopets if you hate pretty much all aspects of it? What's the point in obtaining that shiny digital prize, if it's in an environment that you can't stand anyway?

 

I cheat through the bits that are ridiculously time-consuming and require little more than me sitting here hammering away at the same series of keys over and over again. You'll notice the only thing I mentioned was the games not being fun and the plots not being enjoyable to solve*; hardly 'every aspect' of Neopets. I work full time and when I get home, I don't especially like finding out that the best and easiest (legitimate) way to get something I want is to devote all my free time to clicking my mouse (or pushing three keys) X number of times with very little visual or audial feedback and almost no entertainment value (the battledome in particular doesn't even feel like a win-or-lose situation, it just feels like click click click result).

 

I like character design and some small part of me enjoys the childishness of it all, and I'm exactly the type of dork that will play dress-up with my pets until the cows come home. Unfortunately, feeding my dorkiness requires doing things I hate doing when I'm getting paid to do it. I also like having an excuse to come back and see how Codex is doing and how many people I still remember.

 

I also spent almost a year not playing Neopets before this plot started, so there's the answer to your question.

 

*The vast majority of the time. I actually really enjoyed figuring out the bits of the Faeries' Ruin, even though the account I did all that hard work on got frozen later for a stupid score send.

Edited by Sage, 05 March 2013 - 11:00 AM.