334 replies to this topic

[Frizzle]

Education is necessary regardless of the identity of the perpetrator. And it doesn't matter how frequently it happens - it happens, therefore we should take steps to reduce it.

It should be more focused on relationships, identifying abuse and problem solving in those sorts of situations. Not wasting time and resources on stranger danger (which is again, is incredibly rare. It'd be like focusing energy on how to survive a zombie apocalypse instead of spending time educating about taxes and mortgage rates)

[Sweeney]

It should be more focused on relationships, identifying abuse and problem solving in those sorts of situations. Not wasting time and resources on stranger danger (which is again, is incredibly rare. It'd be like focusing energy on how to survive a zombie apocalypse instead of spending time educating about taxes and mortgage rates)

I agree that stranger danger is overemphasised. It is the same in child abuse awareness, too.

[Frizzle]

I don't understand why we can't have both.

You can, it's just priorities matter, that's all.

[BAUNILY]

I've lost all my desire to discuss feminism. Just look at anti-feminism tag on Tumblr or something and that's all I have to say. Honestly. 

[Frizzle]

Any kind of extremism is terrible for referencing.

[Tetiel]

Rape education is an absolute -must- especially in US university campuses. I remember there was this thread on reddit a couple years ago asking men who have raped why they did so and if they felt bad about it. Some of the quotes are in here:

http://jezebel.com/5...e-should-listen

There were some guys who honestly didn't realize they were doing anything wrong. Some only stopped when they looked up at her face and saw the girl they were about to rape was terrified. There are plenty of men (and women, actually...) out there that still believe in sexual obligation. There's so much victim blaming out there, you know? "Oh, well, you should have known better than to be alone in his room." I don't think it's a crime to trust someone not to rape you. It's terrifying that many people have attitudes that are just the opposite. Yes, we should be careful, but damn it, we shouldn't NEED to be. That doesn't just go for rape. That goes for muggings; that goes for stray shootings; that goes for something as simple as letting your child play outside without worrying they're going to disappear. I don't understand why that's such a hard concept for some people to grasp. Just because some areas have it pretty damn good over others, does not mean we should stop trying to improve our quality of life. Honestly.

[Cass]

http://jezebel.com/5...e-should-listen

There were some guys who honestly didn't realize they were doing anything wrong. Some only stopped when they looked up at her face and saw the girl they were about to rape was terrified. 

^ That link is great. I think a lot of girls don't realize how blinded people can be in the heat of any moment, as well as (attempted) rape. Mind you, i'm NOT justifying rape in ANY way at all, but its good to hear the other side of the story and realize that all people do (extremely) stupid things sometimes. There are a couple of stories that are similar to an experience I had with an old friend, and he sure as hell isn't an evil rapist out to rape every girl he sees. This wouldve been a case where education could possible have made a difference.

 

 

I agree that stranger danger is overemphasised. It is the same in child abuse awareness, too.

Not sure about child abuse awareness, though. A lot of kids have died lately in the Netherlands due to abuse...

 

Anyway, back to feminism; I agree with Frizzle that the emphasis should be on the situations much more common and regular than on stranger danger. It's not only a more important issue, but also to continue talking about extreme situations just ruins the image of overall feminism. It enforces the idea of people that feminisits are silly and not really necessary. And Im not even talking about extreme tumblr feminism

 

Its just so counterproductive. For me the biggest issue with feminism is the fact that people (at least in my surroundings) just hate it so much. Tumblr definitely contributes to that hatred, but isnt the source of it. 

[Choconilla]

Urgh this is touchy in my area. I do believe in going forward, everyone being equal and what not but this is usually not the case in the Thoroughbred state. We either like to hop backwards or avoid talking about it. I remember once in Highschool we were having a debate related to this, whether or not women should be allowed to abort children or have them and adopted them out/keep them (in the case of rape). I remember this distinctly because the only people who voted against abortion after rape were all children who it was widely known that their parents had high profile, high paying professions. I found it painfully ironic that one of the girls who was against it was freaking out a week later, worried she might be pregnant and had no idea what to do about it.

 

Also, whenever I take Krav Maga (self defense) classes with my gf, the teacher always tries to make them real world applicable and reminds us that it's most often people they know who attack them instead of the classic 'random pervert in a dark alley'. So victim blaming looks even worse to us than ever.

Edited by Choconilla, 19 May 2014 - 02:58 PM.

[Glitter]

My thoughts are simple. The same with race, gender etc. equality means everyone the same. No special treatment or scholarships for having boobs or different skin color. No special guaranteed jobs because you were born looking a little different. I honestly think a ton of the issues that exist today are here simply because people don't leave it alone.
Yes I'm aware that certain ways of thinking still exist. But I am making it just fine as a woman without taking the handouts and so should everyone else. "I want equality" and "hand me free shit" should not go together.
And yes I know some things being posted are going way deeper than the basics.
That's just my simple thoughts.

[stretch]

My thoughts are simple. The same with race, gender etc. equality means everyone the same. No special treatment or scholarships for having boobs or different skin color. No special guaranteed jobs because you were born looking a little different. I honestly think a ton of the issues that exist today are here simply because people don't leave it alone.
Yes I'm aware that certain ways of thinking still exist. But I am making it just fine as a woman without taking the handouts and so should everyone else. "I want equality" and "hand me free shit" should not go together.
And yes I know some things being posted are going way deeper than the basics.
That's just my simple thoughts.

And as a woman myself, there are places where current underrepresentation of women only causes further underrepresentation of women. I think it is very easy to dismiss any sort of affirmitive action with "oh, it's special treatment!" but the fact is that prior sexism has caused a status shift that is very difficult to buck, visible in more careers than others. For example, in universities the biological sciences are slowly but surely evening out on its own as the field is seen as an egalitarian one. However, if you stop by a computer sciences classroom you'll be lucky if you see a class with 25% women. I'd really caution against actually blaming women for not going into the field and instead regarding how and why a career is still so male-dominated and what may be the barriers of entry that discourages other women from joining, and what incentives can be posed to better the field.

[Glitter]

And as a woman myself, there are places where current underrepresentation of women only causes further underrepresentation of women. I think it is very easy to dismiss any sort of affirmitive action with "oh, it's special treatment!" but the fact is that prior sexism has caused a status shift that is very difficult to buck, visible in more careers than others. For example, in universities the biological sciences are slowly but surely evening out on its own as the field is seen as an egalitarian one. However, if you stop by a computer sciences classroom you'll be lucky if you see a class with 25% women. I'd really caution against actually blaming women for not going into the field and instead regarding how and why a career is still so male-dominated and what may be the barriers of entry that discourages other women from joining, and what incentives can be posed to better the field.

I have no blame for women pushing for their goals, and especially working against the existent barriers in career fields. I understand completely. I got my bachelor's in a couple of soft science fields and as a woman saw no real efforts working against me. However I ended up with Sherwin-Williams and am slowly working my way up the paint industry ladder. Apparently a woman knowing anything about paint and contracting is absurd to some individuals. I didn't mean there shouldn't be a push for equality, I just mean that the extent of affirmative action in general can be both overwhelming and not productive in many cases. We totally deserve the chance to be equal. I just don't want to be handed everything in life. I want to have to put forth all the same effort every guy out there does!

[stretch]

Of course, agreed! I guess the issue comes up really only in places where a woman has to work harder than a man to accomplish the same thing, which is thankfully becoming less and less the case in many places.

[Glitter]

Of course, agreed! I guess the issue comes up really only in places where a woman has to work harder than a man to accomplish the same thing, which is thankfully becoming less and less the case in many places.

Yes, that is a wonderful thing! Now if we could just calm down the crazy women who think all men should be destroyed, we might have a much smoother journey toward this! 

[DonValentino]

This turns me on 

 

[Frizzle]

Reminds me of an interview they did with a cast member from TOWIE. (Shit show where all the actors are as dumb as shit).

They asked her what her favourite postion was and she replied: CEO.

I was like:

[jinq]

[Mishelle]

[Bear]

I'm only going to say one thing about feminism. 

 

Millions of women all around the world, enslaved, beaten, raped, sold and traded like pieces of meat, told how to dress, unable to vote, unable to go to school, nothing but endless suffering...

Thankfully, feminists in modern western nations have no time for any of that bullshit and so they skip right ahead to what really matters: whining and crying about toys, tv-shows, videogames and books, demanding that men that have been accused of rape are immediately thrown in jail without a trial (ex: see the Rolling Stone incident), demanding that men can never hit women but women can always hit men and completely ruining a scientific milestone over a shirt, just to mention a few.

Mind you, I'm all for fighting for equality, just in places that matter...

[jinq]

 

I'm only going to say one thing about feminism. 

 

Millions of women all around the world, enslaved, beaten, raped, sold and traded like pieces of meat, told how to dress, unable to vote, unable to go to school, nothing but endless suffering...

Thankfully, feminists in modern western nations have no time for any of that bullshit and so they skip right ahead to what really matters: whining and crying about toys, tv-shows, videogames and books, demanding that men that have been accused of rape are immediately thrown in jail without a trial (ex: see the Rolling Stone incident), demanding that men can never hit women but women can always hit men and completely ruining a scientific milestone over a shirt, just to mention a few.

Mind you, I'm all for fighting for equality, just in places that matter...

 

I remeber some people fighting for women to be on CDN bills. As if any of us are even gonna care who's on our bills.

[Bone]

 

Feminism seeks to eliminate both the massive injustices that women face as a result of patriarchy AND the injustices (though this comic doesn't list any of the real problems, like the military draft, bias in divorce law and societal expectations of masculinity) that men face. So...stop posting shitty comics you found on reddit.

[redlion]

Feminism seeks to eliminate both the massive injustices that women face as a result of patriarchy AND the injustices (though this comic doesn't list any of the real problems, like the military draft, bias in divorce law and societal expectations of masculinity) that men face. So...stop posting shitty comics you found on reddit.

Exactly.

It's more about gender equality in my mind than gender preferencing. I don't think many women would agree with actual misandry. My English professor last semester was an outspoken feminist, and he made a point that it serves both in sexes' interests to take down gender walls. My thought was men benefit from the downfall of expected chivalry, and women benefit by finding men that are actually chivalrous instead of faking it. Other examples could come from the business world - promoting a competent woman would be considered not a sign of weakness, but of intelligence. I'd rather see competent women in lesser jobs than figurehead women in ceremonially higher jobs. Oprah and Martha Stewart can suck eggs, for all they've done for feminism. Martha makes sure her women stay in the kitchen.

[vay]

To me, feminism, in its purest form without the unnecessary aggression it can withhold towards the male gender or even other women who are for any given reason opposing feminism, is the defense of the rights and freedom any woman should have, the battle of equality and respect for everyone. Everyone can and should support the idea and battle for feminism, the "correct" sort of feminism, which is all for the defense of women rather than the excessive offense, in other words, the pursuit of what is true equality and justice for all. This is not just about women, it forms a part of a bigger picture itself, which is humanity and how we should treat others. The support of feminism is not only for us women, just because it is a cause for us does not mean it cannot be supported by otherwise. It is like saying one cannot desire to end world hunger because one is not hungry. My stance on feminism is that it is a cause as important as any other because it defends the most basic of human rights, because women are human, just like men, which translates into being equal, in my eyes.

 

Sorry if this was long! As you may notice, I have quite the extensive point of view on this topic.

[DregsandDregs]

I'm a feminist/equalist/egalitarian/whatever you want to call it.

 

I also don't think that women will be equal any time soon.

 

Wait, let me rephrase that.

 

I think women will stop being oppressed when workers are no longer oppressed.

 

We're oppressed for the same reason as the workers--because we are the means of production and you can't risk us either coming to harm or deciding to stop working. 

 

Look at this stuff historically, way way back in the day, I mean 13 orginal colonies days?  No one cared about abortion, it was a known and done thing.  Doctors did it and midwives.  It's only when the upper class white women stopped having so many babies that the men started being disaproving and made it illegal.