95 replies to this topic

[Mishelle]

This really breaks my heart especially after that beautiful Muhammad Ali funeral that encouraged love, peace and equality. It just breaks my heart to know that 50 people are gone from this world in an instant because of warped, dumb ass beliefs that don't make any fucking sense. One year after the landmark supreme court case, during pride month and we have the deadliest shooting in American history. I hope that the news use this tragedy to focus on and celebrate the victims rather than making the shooter famous.

 

Shootings may be an issue, but terrorism is this issue.  Keep guns away from criminals and mass shooters, I am all for that.  But I am not willing to give up my rights because some people are idiots.  I'm just not.  

 

You don't know who's a criminal and a mass shooter until they get a gun. No one goes walks into  a gun store saying "Oh yeah I'm totally gonna use this to kill innocent people."

[howaboutthat]

This really breaks my heart especially after that beautiful Muhammad Ali funeral that encouraged love, peace and equality. It just breaks my heart to know that 50 people are gone from this world in an instant because of warped, dumb ass beliefs that don't make any fucking sense. One year after the landmark supreme court case, during pride month and we have the deadliest shooting in American history. I hope that the news use this tragedy to focus on and celebrate the victims rather than making the shooter famous.

 

 

You don't know who's a criminal and a mass shooter until they get a gun. No one goes walks into  a gun store saying "Oh yeah I'm totally gonna use this to kill innocent people."

 

It is heart breaking.  

 

And criminals shouldn't be able to pass a back ground check.  The man that did this awful thing was on the FBI watch list.  How did that not trigger some alarms??

[Coops]

It is heart breaking.  

 

And criminals shouldn't be able to pass a back ground check.  The man that did this awful thing was on the FBI watch list.  How did that not trigger some alarms??

Until the FBI finishes investigating, we won't really know how or why this happened. I believe in FL it's pretty easy to get guns though.

 

https://www.nraila.o...n-laws/florida/

[Adam]

Terrorism is not the issue. The issue is arms are not thoroughly regulated in this country. People can buy guns at a gun-show, or online, without a background check. People can buy assault weapons, which are unnecessary and extreme. Meanwhile, people are whining because they think reasonable regulation = taking your rights away, when it isn't. Waaahhh, guns are my god given right. Fuck that noise, man.

100% this, other than the lined through part. 

 

When I was buying my pistol, and having my background checked, there was a guy maybe in his mid 20's, a shady guy, I might add also buying a pistol right next to me. After he bought his, he shoved it into his pants, and after the show I saw him look super shady in the corner of the parking lot giving it to someone dressed in all black. I wish there was a way to keep things like that from happening. Chances are the person who received the gun at the end has a record, and is not permitted to have a firearm -- guess what, they have one now! We really do need much more strict gun control laws.

[Coops]

I can't find anything on whether assault rifles are legal in Florida, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's legal to sell them as a registered arms dealer at gun-shows. But they don't require registration of any arms, you don't need a permit for shotguns or rifles, just handguns and only if you're going to carry concealed. What the fuck.

[Karla]

The guy was affiliated with ISIS. What a surprise.

[DonValentino]

I firmly stand by what I said. At the moment, despite the 911 call, it's simply too soon to tell what was this person's motivation. That being said, there are far fewer events of domestic terrorism than mass shootings, with unrelated causes. That's the point @Ali was making and the point I was further agreeing with, and emphasizing. I'm sorry that I was not clear.

I agree with you guys that mass shootings are a huge issue that is unrelated to terrorism, except when it isn't. It's fine to have a discussion about gun rights, and I am completely on board with the idea of severely restricting access to guns. But all signs point to this being a terrorist attack. He had ties with a suicide bomber, he's made terrorist statements, and he pledged support to ISIS before the attack, as well as the group claiming responsibility. So I don't think it's really too early. So yes, gun regulation is an issue, but saying terrorism isn't the issue when it is a terrorist attack is irresponsible. Terrorist attacks might be the minority of mass shootings, but they are some of the deadliest. 

 

[Mishelle]

It is heart breaking.  

 

And criminals shouldn't be able to pass a back ground check.  The man that did this awful thing was on the FBI watch list.  How did that not trigger some alarms??

 

The Virginia Tech shooter passed a background check. Not everyone who wants to commit a crime has a criminal history. Also there was a bill introduced to block people on the terror watch list from buying guns last year and it was blocked by Republicans, so there's no law to prevent him from buying a gun if he wanted one.

Edited by Mishelle, 12 June 2016 - 12:04 PM.

[Adam]

I can't find anything on whether assault rifles are legal in Florida, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's legal to sell them as a registered arms dealer at gun-shows. But they don't require registration of any arms, you don't need a permit for shotguns or rifles, just handguns and only if you're going to carry concealed. What the fuck.

All of that seems so ass backwards! You should need a permit to have any sort of firearm.

[Coops]

I agree with you guys that mass shootings are a huge issue that is unrelated to terrorism, except when it isn't. It's fine to have a discussion about gun rights, and I am completely on board with the idea of severely restricting access to guns. But all signs point to this being a terrorist attack. He had ties with a suicide bomber, he's made terrorist statements, and he pledged support to ISIS before the attack, as well as the group claiming responsibility. So I don't think it's really too early. So yes, gun regulation is an issue, but saying terrorism isn't the issue when it is a terrorist attack is irresponsible. Terrorist attacks might be the minority of mass shootings, but they are some of the deadliest. 

 

I don't disagree with your fundamental points. But I think we should let the FBI finish investigating before we drop the gavel on the nature of this event. I don't believe that's irresponsible, so that's where we disagree. And that's okay. I dislike media painting a picture before they have the facts. I think it's irresponsible to say we know what, why and how before the matter has been thoroughly investigated.

 

Be that as it may, today's event only accounts for roughly 1/4th of 2016 gun-related homicides. 50/206 deaths are related to terrorism. The larger part of this discussion happening here on Codex is about gun regulation. Those are the major points I was addressing. In this particular instance, yes, terrorism could be a factor (refer to my above point). But overall, again, which is what Ali was saying and what I was emphasizing, terrorism is not the primary issue.

 

Source: http://www.gunviolen...s/mass-shooting

[Bone]

Heartbreaking — and a sobering reminder of the power homophobia still holds in America and around the world. The struggle for LGBT rights didn't end with Obergefell v Hodges.

In solidarity.

[howaboutthat]

Until the FBI finishes investigating, we won't really know how or why this happened. I believe in FL it's pretty easy to get guns though.

 

https://www.nraila.o...n-laws/florida/

 

You are right.  Florida is a "shall carry" state, which means as long as you can prove you're worthy, you can have a gun.  

 

By all the accounts I have read and listened to about this shooting, it lasted for quite some time.  One guy mentioned that a song could have played during the shooting, which suggests to me that it had to last at least 3 minutes or so.  Its too bad that one of the patrons of this club wasn't carrying.  One brave soul with a legal gun could have potentially saved many lives.

 

I believe that for gun laws to work, the good guys need to have guns, not the bad guys.  I would trust everyone of you who are arguing for stricter gun laws with a gun.  You are the ones who should have them.  Responsible people ought to have guns.   

[Ladida]

This is just so senseless. I feel heartbroken for the people who lost their lives, the families that have been shattered as a result of absolute reckless hatred.

 

And I know that some are waiting for the FBI to finish their investigations.. But ISIS just claimed responsibility.. So, that's that then.

http://www.dailymail...g-hostages.html

[Mishelle]

You are right.  Florida is a "shall carry" state, which means as long as you can prove you're worthy, you can have a gun.  

 

By all the accounts I have read and listened to about this shooting, it lasted for quite some time.  One guy mentioned that a song could have played during the shooting, which suggests to me that it had to last at least 3 minutes or so.  Its too bad that one of the patrons of this club wasn't carrying.  One brave soul with a legal gun could have potentially saved many lives.

 

I believe that for gun laws to work, the good guys need to have guns, not the bad guys.  I would trust everyone of you who are arguing for stricter gun laws with a gun.  You are the ones who should have them.  Responsible people ought to have guns.   

 

They had an armed security guard at the club.

[Swar]

I believe that for gun laws to work, the good guys need to have guns, not the bad guys.  I would trust everyone of you who are arguing for stricter gun laws with a gun.  You are the ones who should have them.  Responsible people ought to have guns.   

People change. There's no such thing as good guys or bad guys. How do you know if someone will go crazy and decide to shoot a random person, or even a group? That's why I don't think a test is enough for someone to have a license. Even if you have to do it every year or something (no idea how it works in the US).

[DonValentino]

I believe that for gun laws to work, the good guys need to have guns, not the bad guys.  I would trust everyone of you who are arguing for stricter gun laws with a gun.  You are the ones who should have them.  Responsible people ought to have guns.   

I never in my life want to own a gun, and I think that's the responsible option. 

[Junjie]

I believe that for gun laws to work, the good guys need to have guns, not the bad guys.  I would trust everyone of you who are arguing for stricter gun laws with a gun.  You are the ones who should have them.  Responsible people ought to have guns.

Why is that the responsible option though, if the "good guys" don't really need guns (except for cases like hunting, law enforcement etc I guess), unless the "bad guys" have it?

Putting the "good guys" and "bad guys" thing in inverted commas as well, because I don't agree with classifying people like that, though I suppose you can do so for the sake of illustrating this argument I guess.

[Kaddict]

I agree with @DonValentino on this. I just don't understand how the boston bombing was clearly terrorism, but this isn't? The guy called and claimed ISIS right before the incident, isn't that obvious why he was doing it? ISIS hates Americans. This isn't an attack on the LGBT community as much as it is a radical terrorist doing deplorable evil. Yes, LGBT are hated by ISIS, but honestly, who isn't hated by them? 

Also, Westboro baptist church at it again with "God sent the murder" are fucking despicable. They are a terrorist group, they just aren't killing anyone. But they spread fear and hate just as much as any other terrorist group.

[Coops]

I agree with @DonValentino on this. I just don't understand how the boston bombing was clearly terrorism, but this isn't? The guy called and claimed ISIS right before the incident, isn't that obvious why he was doing it? ISIS hates Americans. This isn't an attack on the LGBT community as much as it is a radical terrorist doing deplorable evil. Yes, LGBT are hated by ISIS, but honestly, who isn't hated by them? 
Also, Westboro baptist church at it again with "God sent the murder" are fucking despicable. They are a terrorist group, they just aren't killing anyone. But they spread fear and hate just as much as any other terrorist group.

There was another pastor who is a known bigot. Andersen something saying he was glad 50 pedophiles were dead because he thinks all LGBT are pedophiles. Fucking humans amirite?

[Mishelle]

I agree with @DonValentino on this. I just don't understand how the boston bombing was clearly terrorism, but this isn't? The guy called and claimed ISIS right before the incident, isn't that obvious why he was doing it? ISIS hates Americans. This isn't an attack on the LGBT community as much as it is a radical terrorist doing deplorable evil. Yes, LGBT are hated by ISIS, but honestly, who isn't hated by them? 

Also, Westboro baptist church at it again with "God sent the murder" are fucking despicable. They are a terrorist group, they just aren't killing anyone. But they spread fear and hate just as much as any other terrorist group.

 

It's possible for it to be a terrorist attack and a hate crime. He targeted a very popular gay club during their Pride weekend. It's pretty disingenuous to say this isn't an attack on the LGBT community when he literally went into the local LGBT community during their time of celebration and attacked them.

[HiMyNameIsNick]

Yeah, blame ISIS and whatever works for you, but that guy (and no one) shouldn't be carrying an AR-15

[Karla]

I wonder how the Westboro Baptist Church thinks about this. Between their rampant homophobia AND Islamaphobia, they must be rather confused

 

They favored the shooter, obviously. 

 

http://www.advocate....dies-still-club

http://thesccop.com/...cre-on-twitter/

[WarezHaxor]

So horrible. I know many people from Florida and used to live in West Palm Beach so it still hits close to home even if it's been nearly 2 decades since I've lived there. Such senseless violence...I get that it makes some people uncomfortable to be around the LGBT communities, but that doesn't mean you've gotta go killing them. Just don't go near their gatherings and ignore it. Is it really so hard to ignore things these days?

As for the ISIS thing, if it does turn out to be true because currently ISIS itself hasn't released video claiming responsibility, this guy may not have actually been a member. Could just be claiming allegiance because he agrees with their values and hoped this would make a difference in some way for him. Regardless, senseless acts like these need to stop, I'm not going to get into the gun debate because honestly I'm starting to feel like I should have one just to protect my daughters, but a solution to the violence will never be easy. It's a human instinct these days to he aggressive.

[Kaddict]

It's possible for it to be a terrorist attack and a hate crime. He targeted a very popular gay club during their Pride weekend. It's pretty disingenuous to say this isn't an attack on the LGBT community when he literally went into the local LGBT community during their time of celebration and attacked them.

Aren't all terrorist attacks hate crimes? Radical extremists hate americans, and homosexuals, and christians, and marathon runners, and probably people who like root beer floats. Bastards. And Westboro is just as bad too me.

[Mishelle]

Aren't all terrorist attacks hate crimes? Radical extremists hate americans, and homosexuals, and christians, and marathon runners, and probably people who like root beer floats. Bastards. And Westboro is just as bad too me.

 

All terrorist attacks may be hate crimes but not all hate crimes are terrorists therefore there's nothing wrong with pointing out that this is both a terrorist attack and a hate crime. Even before he decided to make a phone call and pledge allegiance to ISIS he went on homophobic rants to his parents, he complained about seeing too men kissing in front of his son. I think it's really important to not marginalize the fact that LGBT people are still targets of violence and terrorism from people who have nothing to do with ISIS on a regular basis. A man showed up to LA pride today with weapons with intent to cause violence.