Quantcast

Jump to content


Photo

Drown


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
19 replies to this topic

#1 lock

lock
  • 48 posts

Posted 11 October 2008 - 04:18 AM







-----------------------------------------



I like the desaturated version more, although I feel that it no longer brings out the meaning of the word "drown". What do you guys think?

Also... I just got a new monitor, and I'm really not used to the new brightness and contrast levles, so if anyone thinks it's way too bright/dull let me know? @ _ @


#2 iNextGenWarrior

iNextGenWarrior
  • 1635 posts


Users Awards

Posted 11 October 2008 - 10:42 AM

ohmy.gif I like it. I remember using that stock before... tongue.gif. Well I tried to. tongue.gif

#3 Sida

Sida
  • Tsvetesman

  • 3865 posts

Posted 11 October 2008 - 02:11 PM

Something about that is so...different. I love it man.

#4 sarah.

sarah.
  • 5392 posts


Users Awards

Posted 11 October 2008 - 02:14 PM

Would it be possible to see the original stock? smile.gif

#5 lock

lock
  • 48 posts

Posted 11 October 2008 - 05:05 PM


@ iNextGenWarrior; The balloons? It took me a while to figure out what I should do with them, haw haw :3

@ SidaZoid; Aww, thank you :'D Unfortunately I suck with making good use of fractals & .PSDs so I think I'll just be sticking with this style for a while >:

@ sarah; Sure thing. The balloons came from here, and the background was originally like this. I also made use of this and a floral brush. C:


#6 iNextGenWarrior

iNextGenWarrior
  • 1635 posts


Users Awards

Posted 11 October 2008 - 05:12 PM

QUOTE (lock @ Oct 11 2008, 08:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

@ iNextGenWarrior; The balloons? It took me a while to figure out what I should do with them, haw haw :3

@ SidaZoid; Aww, thank you :'D Unfortunately I suck with making good use of fractals & .PSDs so I think I'll just be sticking with this style for a while >:

@ sarah; Sure thing. The balloons came from here, and the background was originally like this. I also made use of this and a floral brush. C:


Yep, me neither. tongue.gif You put it to good use man! biggrin.gif

#7 The Dirty Filipino

The Dirty Filipino
  • 636 posts

Posted 12 October 2008 - 01:19 AM

I actually like the desaturated one better, feels like it fits the 'drowned out color' motif of sorts. The thing I don't understand is the blending of the images. I just don't get how the images together make up a similar theme. Florals, Abstract Fractals, and Balloons just don't seem to have much in common.

#8 lock

lock
  • 48 posts

Posted 12 October 2008 - 04:03 AM

@ TEI; LOL, well, that's an interesting interpretation. Personally I don't go by "themes". I go by "meaning", and I like to make people wonder when they look at my creations. The meaning that I'm trying to bring out here is the concept of "drowning".

Balloons are meant to float, but here they are trapped underneath the water surface. The balloons are struggling to escape, yet the depths of the water doesn't seem to want to let the balloons float up and away. It's a very surrealistic reflection of my own life, lol.


#9 The Dirty Filipino

The Dirty Filipino
  • 636 posts

Posted 12 October 2008 - 12:49 PM

QUOTE (lock @ Oct 12 2008, 05:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
@ TEI; LOL, well, that's an interesting interpretation. Personally I don't go by "themes". I go by "meaning", and I like to make people wonder when they look at my creations. The meaning that I'm trying to bring out here is the concept of "drowning".

Balloons are meant to float, but here they are trapped underneath the water surface. The balloons are struggling to escape, yet the depths of the water doesn't seem to want to let the balloons float up and away. It's a very surrealistic reflection of my own life, lol.

I understood that's what you were going for, but it just doesn't make sense to me. The only thing that I can relate to water is the fact that the main tone of the piece is blue.

You must go by themes, it's the basis of art. There is no meaning without theme. Theme is a recurring idea or a subject of artistic representation. I just don't get how the different pieces you put together mesh to provide a drowning theme, besides the unsaturated colors.

Balloons aren't meant to float, they do float. It's basic laws of physics. They only don't float if a force is reacting against that. I understand the image you're trying to convey, but slapping a couple images together with a different overlay color doesn't do that for me.

It's a good idea, I understand that, but if you're going to sit there and say that this image accurately portrays your idea to others, you're wrong.

QUOTE
Balloons are meant to float, but here they are trapped underneath the water surface.

How are they trapped? There is nothing prohibiting them from floating in the piece. The balloons look like they're floating away, just like they are in the stock that you used.

QUOTE
The balloons are struggling to escape,

Struggling against what? I see nothing holding them back.

QUOTE
yet the depths of the water doesn't seem to want to let the balloons float up and away.

You mention depths, but for the depths of the water this piece seems pretty bright. When I think depths I think bottom feeders & true darkness. So that the waves of light can't penetrate deep enough to the position you're currently in. This piece shows relatively 'light' water and it isn't consistent throughout. For instance, it starts dark in the bottom left, gets lighter as it goes to the top right. But there's interference of brightness with the other stocks that you used.


I'm not trying to bash you, I'm trying to help you improve. This is what I see when you tell me what it's supposed to mean. You may mean something to be one way, but it may convey a different idea to the public. The goal of most artists is to accurately convey an idea to a mass audience through imagery. What you're trying to convey and what you are conveying is two different messages, work on merging both conceptions into the same message to both groups of people.

Edited by T.E.I., 12 October 2008 - 12:50 PM.


#10 lock

lock
  • 48 posts

Posted 12 October 2008 - 03:47 PM

Y-yes, sir! /salutes! blink.gif

#11 Sida

Sida
  • Tsvetesman

  • 3865 posts

Posted 12 October 2008 - 05:23 PM

You can't relate this to water? Are you looking at the right picture? All I see when I look at this is water, and the first thing that comes into mind when looking at the balloons is the fact they're rising through it. The circles on the bottom left give a really cool bubbly effect, which look even better considering they look like the source of the balloon's path. Normally I'd want to bitch slap someone who used a big white block like that as a seperate background for text, but with this it goes perfectly. The whole thing just screams out bubbles, ripples, roundedness and reflections...basically everything water.

All you did in that entire crit was churn out random ideas that you heard from one of your art teachers. You can give him tips on the tools he's used, the methods he used to create it, ideas on how you could improve it, but if you start dictating that it's not art unless his 'themes' follow that textbook crap then you have the wrong idea of art.

The only thing I think of that needs improvement is the border. It's a bit too thick. Other than that, you did a sweet ass job conveying what you planned. You did to me anyway.

#12 Nick

Nick
  • <img src="http://i29.tinypic.com/9iwl5w.jpg">

  • 6051 posts


Users Awards

Posted 12 October 2008 - 07:54 PM

I don't think water either.
To me the blue background takes the form of a night sky, the circular light in the center being the moon and the lines on the right I mistook for branches blowing in the wind.

#13 Sida

Sida
  • Tsvetesman

  • 3865 posts

Posted 12 October 2008 - 08:13 PM

QUOTE (Urban @ Oct 13 2008, 04:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think water either.
To me the blue background takes the form of a night sky, the circular light in the center being the moon and the lines on the right I mistook for branches blowing in the wind.


I see that actually. Don't try and find a picture in it. Just look at it as some sort of abstract and don't try to position things relative to other things.

#14 The Dirty Filipino

The Dirty Filipino
  • 636 posts

Posted 12 October 2008 - 10:47 PM

QUOTE (SidaZoid @ Oct 12 2008, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You can't relate this to water? Are you looking at the right picture? All I see when I look at this is water, and the first thing that comes into mind when looking at the balloons is the fact they're rising through it. The circles on the bottom left give a really cool bubbly effect, which look even better considering they look like the source of the balloon's path. Normally I'd want to bitch slap someone who used a big white block like that as a seperate background for text, but with this it goes perfectly. The whole thing just screams out bubbles, ripples, roundedness and reflections...basically everything water.

All you did in that entire crit was churn out random ideas that you heard from one of your art teachers. You can give him tips on the tools he's used, the methods he used to create it, ideas on how you could improve it, but if you start dictating that it's not art unless his 'themes' follow that textbook crap then you have the wrong idea of art.

They're not bubbles, they're florals. If anything they look more like clouds.

You say the whole thing screams out bubbles, ripples, roundness and reflections, everything that is NOT synonymous with the DEPTHS of the ocean. Ripples, reflections, roundness are all ideas that relate to the surface of the water, his idea is that the balloons are trying to escape from the DEPTHS of the ocean. Depths imply darkness, no light and therefore no reflections. I never said it

All I did in my criticism was churn out logical inferences I drew from bits of what he said. I'm an Aerospace Engineering major, and I don't take art classes. That statement you just made about art teachers was 'churning out random ideas'.

I never once said it wasn't art, I said that the message he was trying to tell the audience was misconstrued because of his representation.

Tips on the tools: Use stocks that convey your idea more properly, or take advantage of the multitude of manipulation tools found in Photoshop.

As far as the methods, I mentioned the use of overlaying layers with a blue foreground. I can't tell him to 'use clone stamp instead of xxx' or 'less use of the xxx filter', all I can say is that the methods that he did use didn't come to portray an accurate representation of his ideas.

As far as ideas on how to improve it, that whole post was it. Make your image convey what your message is. If it's random and doesn't have a message, than don't say it does, you'll save yourself a lot of trouble.

And you can't have art without a theme. It's not some stupid textbook crap. It's like saying you can have a religion without a central figure. Logically speaking, art without theme isn't art. It's just a mess. If you don't believe me, find me one piece of published art without a central theme.

Please do try to use logic in your post instead of just arguing that my 'textbook definitions' are false and don't mean anything.

#15 Sida

Sida
  • Tsvetesman

  • 3865 posts

Posted 13 October 2008 - 05:19 AM

Dude, art DOESN'T need a theme. If I were to open photoshop and randomly create a layer with some effect, then continue using that method until I came up with something, where's the theme? I had nothing in mind. Art having a theme means you knew what it was going to be from the start, and you'll find a hell of a lot of art is created without any clue as to where the image will end up.

And no, to me, they scream out bubbles. If I'd asked you what they were before he posted the stocks, you wouldn't have said flowers. You're seeing what you want to see. "Florals, Abstract Fractals, and Balloons just don't seem to have much in common." is what you said, and now that's all you'll see. Also, when did I say it has anything to do with the depths? I said water, not depths, read again. And even he didn't say the image should portray depth. If you actually read what he said, the 'depths' were supposed to be where the balloons are rising from, and what do you know, that's the darker bottom left of the image! Would you look at that.

Even if you can't grasp the image he's trying to show, that doesn't make it bad art. Just because you can't see it. I've seen countless artworks that I've looked at and though "You know, I really don't see it" yet they're hanging nicely in an art gallery.

"Tips on the tools: Use stocks that convey your idea more properly"
What? So if I ever want to create something I do the following: Step 1) Choose a theme. Step 2) Choose multuple stocks that relate to my theme. Step 3) Start. Dude, one of the things that makes great art is putting together random images and ideas to create something different.

Edited by SidaZoid, 13 October 2008 - 05:32 AM.


#16 The Dirty Filipino

The Dirty Filipino
  • 636 posts

Posted 13 October 2008 - 10:28 AM

QUOTE (SidaZoid @ Oct 13 2008, 06:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dude, art DOESN'T need a theme. If I were to open photoshop and randomly create a layer with some effect, then continue using that method until I came up with something, where's the theme? I had nothing in mind. Art having a theme means you knew what it was going to be from the start, and you'll find a hell of a lot of art is created without any clue as to where the image will end up.


Art does need a theme. You don't however need to start with a theme in mind in order to make art. Please read my posts carefully before jumping to assumptions. You can't have a religion without a central figure, just like you can't have art without a theme. You don't need to have a theme or a central figure in order to create art or a religion, but it's not a finished work until you have all parts. If I just throw random layers together in Photoshop, it makes a mess... not art. However, if I use multiple layers and edit/blend them in a method that appeals to me, or 'a theme', that is art. You really need to step off the whole 'art doesn't have to be holy' thing it seems you've adopted. Art can seem random, but it never really is truly random if there is a human control.

QUOTE
And no, to me, they scream out bubbles. If I'd asked you what they were before he posted the stocks, you wouldn't have said flowers. You're seeing what you want to see. "Florals, Abstract Fractals, and Balloons just don't seem to have much in common." is what you said, and now that's all you'll see. Also, when did I say it has anything to do with the depths? I said water, not depths, read again. And even he didn't say the image should portray depth. If you actually read what he said, the 'depths' were supposed to be where the balloons are rising from, and what do you know, that's the darker bottom left of the image! Would you look at that.


They scream out bubbles because you refuse to look at the finer details. Bubbles are not jagged/wavy. They are round. The images in the bottom left are not round. If anything they look like bubbles locked in a trunk with the bass turned up on high.

If you would've asked me what the image was comprised of I probably would've taken a similar approach to Urban. Thinking it was a stock of a night sky (with the moon), some pattern/brush overlay, a balloon stock and some fractal brushes. I'm not seeing what I want to see. Because I look at the image and want to see drowning, but I don't see it in the sense that the artist sees. I see desaturated stocks.

You say you see reflections/ripples/whatever. His idea is that:
QUOTE
they are trapped underneath the water surface
.
Reflections and ripples are caused by wave movement on the surface. Let me know if you ever go snorkling and can see a reflection of yourself in the water, underwater. How is ripples and reflections synonymous with escaping from the depths of the ocean and still being trapped underwater?

If you would read what he said:
QUOTE
The balloons are struggling to escape, yet the depths of the water doesn't seem to want to let the balloons float up and away.

The balloons are trapped in the depths of the Ocean. That means they can't move. They can't escape. My point is that there is nothing in the image suggesting the balloons are being held back. They're trapped in the 'depths' of the ocean, but the only think I see that could possibly suggest depths is the dark blue color in the bottom left, which, if analyzed throughly, hardly gives the notion of being the 'depths' of the ocean.

QUOTE
Even if you can't grasp the image he's trying to show, that doesn't make it bad art. Just because you can't see it. I've seen countless artworks that I've looked at and though "You know, I really don't see it" yet they're hanging nicely in an art gallery.

Again you're taking words out of my mouth. I never made the notion that it was bad art. I said his ideas weren't accurately portrayed to the audience. I can see it, but it's portrayed inaccurately. I get what he was trying to do, and I told him to try and better convey his ideas. All art in museums has meaning, has a theme. The only reason you don't get it is because of malinformation or ignorance. If the artist was sitting next to you going 'this is why I did this, this is why I did that' than you would see why he/she did what. In this scenario, the artist has done that, but it doesn't logically fit, therefore it isn't art.

QUOTE
"Tips on the tools: Use stocks that convey your idea more properly"
What? So if I ever want to create something I do the following: Step 1) Choose a theme. Step 2) Choose multuple stocks that relate to my theme. Step 3) Start.


Please please try not to be so simple minded. I don't get how it's possible for you to gather "What? So if I ever want to create something I do the following: Step 1) Choose a theme. Step 2) Choose multuple stocks that relate to my theme. Step 3) Start."
From me telling him to use correct tools. His tools were stocks and manipulation of those stocks. He either needs to choose new stocks or manipulate them in a different method. The majority of people find it easier to choose new stocks than to manipulate them (hence why most signatures use different renders with similar methods). I said to choose different stocks because he could then keep his effects similar and not have to change much. If he hadn't used stocks, and had used filters, I would've told him to use filters that would've better convey his ideas. In layman's terms, use the proper tools (the right way) to make your result work.

QUOTE
Dude, one of the things that makes great art is putting together random images and ideas to create something different.

No, it's not one of the things that makes great art.

The Ajanta Murals, the sculpture of Khafre, Easter Island, Zen Gardens, David, Waterlilies, etc. Those are great pieces of art. And it's not putting together random images. It's systematically adding layer upon layer to achieve a final result.

#17 Sida

Sida
  • Tsvetesman

  • 3865 posts

Posted 13 October 2008 - 10:55 AM

I really can't be bothered to read all of that, let alone break it all down as you keep doing. What you're asking for is a photograph, and this wasn't supposed to be one.

edit: typo.

Edited by SidaZoid, 13 October 2008 - 10:55 AM.


#18 lock

lock
  • 48 posts

Posted 13 October 2008 - 07:13 PM

Woahh, people, uhhh, what's going on @___@

TEI, do you think you can just read a person's argument and digest it first, without having some sort of a knee-jerk reaction to break down and analyze, then refute every single paragraph that a person is saying? People are entitled to their own opinions, just because it doesn't make logical sense to you doesn't mean that is actually is completely senseless.

So, okay, you are an Engineering student, you like to break down things and logically assess them, but this is art. Art is freedom and magic and the land where bunnies can fly and the sky is green. Art doesn't need logic because art is an expression of the self, and there are people (like me) who don't possess the logic of the general public. So no matter what I create, it will never make sense to the majority of the community, not in the sense that I perceive it in, anyway. Artists create art to express themselves. This piece expresses completely what I was feeling at that moment, but I don't expect everyone else to feel what I felt when they look at the finished piece. That is why I don't mind if people don't see the image that I see, or agree with the theme I assigned it to.

But if you insist, TEI, there is a theme to this. The theme is "Drown". But really, what is a theme? Most themes are implied rather than explicitly stated. The theme is different from the superficial outlay of the text; it is normally the meaning of the text on a deeper, more abstract level. And that is what I'm trying to point out here. A theme can be abstract. It's up to any one person to decide that, if the theme is "Drown", what is the meaning that the image is really trying to convey? I say that it is water, but you don't have to agree that it's water. You can think it's the night sky. You can think it's outerspace for all I care, if you so please.

I can accept that it doesn't make sense to you, that balloons, florals & abstract fractals don't go together, yadda yadda, but I cannot agree with you. Art is a byproduct of my personal experiences, I cannot change a product so that it can make more sense to "the audience", because I am creating it for me, not them. You're telling me to use better, more "relevant" stock photos, and not just use layer effects, but if I change it so that it could make sense to you, it would lose its meaning to me. What's the point of creating art if it doesn't make sense to its creator? A constructive criticism sticks with the creator's original intent, and works on improving that intent. Make the blue darker to appear like the sea, use bubbles instead of florals, things like that would be a lot more useful than "don't just keep using the overlay effect".

Yes, I agree that there are more things I can work on: the depth, the contrast between foreground & background, technical details that I have yet to master. But TEI, can you stop implying that all I did was open Photoshop, choose a random selection of stock photos, then mix them together with random layer effects? Ignoring the fact that I spent hours trying to put everything in the right place so that it would give off that surrealistic feeling of being illogical, and yet contain a deeper meaning at the same time, it is deeply discouraging to imply to anybody at all that the creation they put up to receive constructive comments was done haphazardly.

And if you're so intent on breaking down the meaning of the piece of artwork, then seriously, I've never said that they are trapped in the depths of the water - you assume they are trapped in the depths. I said the depths don't want to let them go. It could mean the depths of water are pulling them back. It could mean the depths of water want them back, but they insist on leaving so they can only let go. It could mean a whole lot of things.

What if I say, the balloons represent people, the water surface represents political freedom, and the depths of the water represents a tyrannical government? The people long for freedom, but is being pulled back by the tyrannical government, because a government cannot exist without its people. And so, the people can only look longingly at the surface of freedom, barely touching the fringes of the idea of freedom, while being held back by the government.

And what if I say, the balloons represent a dying man in pain, the sparkling water surface represents heaven, and the depths of the water represents the family that is refusing him a peaceful death by euthanasia? The dying man longs to go to heaven, but the family cannot bear to let him go, and so pulls him back, even though he is so close to the surface (i.e death).

I can go on forever, giving different interpretations for the same thing.

Have you seen the surface of the water from beneath it? Light shimmers through. I don't know where I mentioned reflections or if I did at all, but it could've been a refraction of light, couldn't it? We all see what we want to see. I'm fine with you seeing a different thing or not seeing anything at all, but when you argue with someone else over their nterpretation of art, that's just unreasonable. You clearly don't see what they see, so how can you tell them that what they're seeing doesn't make logical sense?


And that is really all I have to say. Sorry for the huge wall of text ):


#19 The Dirty Filipino

The Dirty Filipino
  • 636 posts

Posted 13 October 2008 - 09:48 PM

Woot, a thought out response.

I'll reply later, but in message form so as to not clog the boards with debate.

#20 Sida

Sida
  • Tsvetesman

  • 3865 posts

Posted 14 October 2008 - 03:30 AM

QUOTE (T.E.I. @ Oct 14 2008, 06:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Woot, a thought out response.

I'll reply later, but in message form so as to not clog the boards with debate.


I wouldn't bother.


4 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 4 guests, 0 anonymous users