1730 replies to this topic

[Sweeney]

I don't have a specific religion, nor I think it matters which one you choose or even if you have one (although it's a great learning experience to try and understand cultural aspects and problems involving them). But I do believe in life and that faith can be good to us humans and to our nature - and faith meaning something more, not the "faith-in-god" kind, if you know what I mean. The things we should be calling "divine" can be easily found when we look inside and around ourselves. Anyway, we still have plenty to learn about our origins and the meanings of our existence, so it's nice to be broad-minded and not state things like they are a done deal. And I say that because science, specifically speaking, is always transforming and changing. I hope to see more of what it has to offer.

That was a very new-agey way to describe the placebo effect...

[Frizzle]

Wait, are people still arguing that belief in some form of God is wrong? If people get their kicks and helps them out in their daily lives, what is the problem?

And don't give me this "they shove it down our throat" thing because the majority of religious people don't.

[Sweeney]

Wait, are people still arguing that belief in some form of God is wrong? If people get their kicks and helps them out in their daily lives, what is the problem?

And don't give me this "they shove it down our throat" thing because the majority of religious people don't.

S'fun.

[lua]

That was a very new-agey way to describe the placebo effect...

I mixed up a lot of things up there Maybe I was sleepy - or just a little crazy to be talking about this here. But I do like spiritual discussions. And scientific problems and solutions for life questions and so on. I tried to reply to all the things I read here in just one paragraph, and wasn't successful, obviously.
Anyway, faith is good. Not particularly faith in an entity type, I was talking more about faith in life, faith in your work, in your interior beliefs. I think it moves us. It's hard to live when you don't believe even in yourself. Yes, yes, I'm an optimistic kind of person, at least sometimes.
Also, I feel that it's nice to have respect for other peoples ideas, religions, etc, be it what they are. We'll never get a solution for all this discussion through a topic - so that's why I talked about the necessity of being broad-minded.
Well, I'll stop it now, I promise. Thank you for this topic and sorry for anything that's pointless in what I said.

Edited by lua, 27 April 2010 - 10:34 AM.

[Jocas]

nah I dont belive in god... But I d belive in ghost and stuff alike ...
god seems just too... well.. too godly to be true lol
in other words it just seems impossible and stuff

[Alexiel]

I... honestly don't think about it that much.
Just live life day to day, struggle to get by when needed & enjoy it whenever possible.
I don't really "care" if there is a God or not nor do I give a rat's ass about organized religion as that only leads to problems, but I hope there's an afterlife of some sort at least...
Even if it's just a "transference of energy" or something. Meh.
Really don't want death to be "the end" but even if it is, I wont know it so no need to dwell.

To each their own though.
As long as it's not being shoved down my throat or they're hurting others with it then I say do what you need to get through this life.

[generalgsus]

No, I'm sorry if I cause offense by saying this but just flat-out no I do not. Sometimes I'll play along with my family as to circumvent arguments though.

[Jake]

Pure coincidence as time passes and technology increases, lack of faith is increased? DUN DUN DUN

Also Jihad says it all.

[kiddX]

Pure coincidence as time passes and technology increases, lack of faith is increased? DUN DUN DUN

Also Jihad says it all.

That's not completely true. This trend is really only in the past ~100 years, before that I think the faith / power of religious figures was more of a wave.

[Warriors]

Wait, are people still arguing that belief in some form of God is wrong? If people get their kicks and helps them out in their daily lives, what is the problem?

And don't give me this "they shove it down our throat" thing because the majority of religious people don't.

you know what the first part you might be right but the second..I highly doubt it..Religion is all around us..those who don't believe were persecuted and even now it is seen as sort of a moral/mental defect..

look at the damn teabaggers..

I would say individuals might not shove it down your throat..but the mob does.

[Xerous]

I actually have problems conceiving a heaven because of this reason. We like to think that in heaven we are completely free - or at least I think that when people describe heaven it means complete freedom. But then in heaven can I rape someone? Wouldn't complete freedom mean that if I could rape some one I would be able to do so if I wanted? On earth we already have that freedom. Anything within your means you can do. You already have free will. I don't understand how heaven can be any more free then our situation here. Am I to think that in heaven I would not even have the thought to rape some one?

The only laws we have that we could even say are god-given are the laws of physics and the anatomical constraints of our bodies. All other laws and things that restrict our freedom are man made. I also wonder if we have a heaven, do we have a corporeal body there? Does that body have constraints - like hunger or fatigue? If I eat in heaven do I need to crap?

Hmmm according to the bible it's basically like your everyday life(eternally) except the bad things are omitted such as murder,theft,''natural disasters'',animals trying to eat us etc. it's written that evil will be purged from existence.

so no you would not rape someone but your everyday normal body functions shall remain

[Ambition]

To answer the thread's question, no.

Don't even try to convince me otherwise.

[Xerous]

Furthermore i see no reason not to so what if i miss out on a few things in life it's not gonna kill me but if i were to say no and i was wrong well frankly that would suck for me lol

[kiddX]

you know what the first part you might be right but the second..I highly doubt it..Religion is all around us..those who don't believe were persecuted and even now it is seen as sort of a moral/mental defect..

look at the damn teabaggers..

I would say individuals might not shove it down your throat..but the mob does.

I agree that a lot of people force religion upon others - one just needs to look at the mass conversions going on in developing countries right now to see that. I think it's because religions generally believe all other religions are inferior and they must convert you or you go to hell. Well the answer to that should be helping people make informed decisions about religion and not just forcing atheism upon others because you think if they believe in god they are stupid.

I didn't use to be religious. I became a lot more after college. Not because I had some great epiphany or something like that but because it helps me be a better person and make better decisions. Also, when I started reading and discussing religion more, I was able to develop my own philosophy on things whereas before I was just 'going with the flow' so to speak. That's not to say I believe the texts literally and follow every line - I don't. But the texts do have messages that I think are still relevant today.

Also, I think it's pretty fucked up when people dismiss people who are religious as stupid. Science just doesn't have the answers to all my questions so what the hell is the problem if I believe in a greater good? There are people in the world who believe the Holocaust didn't happen, that raping kids is ok, and 9/11 is a made up conspiracy. You can justify calling them stupid.

So if I believe in god I don't think it's hurting anyone. Everyone has faith in something right?

[Gen]

Beh, I know I'll be bashed for this, but I couldn't stop myself lol.

Why the hell can't science and spirituality be together?
Notice that I said spirituality, not religion. I believe in god, my own conception of god(which might be a few other people conception's too) and still I love science by all it's means. I always try to explain spiritual things with science and science with spiritual things, for me they stick together perfectly, and so it seems to do to my mother, she follow the Catholic Church's ideas and still studied biology and loves science.(I don't follow Catholic Church, btw, It just doesn't fit in my beliefs).

Btw, in my language we call "God" as "He", but probably because we don't have a word for "It" lol, plus we can have "Deus"(God) as masculine and still have "Deusa"(still god) in feminine. Traditional religions use "Deus", but some other religions that believes in a female god(Wicca, for example) calls it "Deusa".

Really, religion and faith are stuff you can't put stereotypes in, everyone has a different concept of God, even when they don't believe in It. You don't need to try to disprove anyone's beliefs as it won't change their view, may you believe or not in God.

[generalgsus]

Beh, I know I'll be bashed for this, but I couldn't stop myself lol.

Why the hell can't science and spirituality be together?
Notice that I said spirituality, not religion. I believe in god, my own conception of god(which might be a few other people conception's too) and still I love science by all it's means. I always try to explain spiritual things with science and science with spiritual things, for me they stick together perfectly, and so it seems to do to my mother, she follow the Catholic Church's ideas and still studied biology and loves science.(I don't follow Catholic Church, btw, It just doesn't fit in my beliefs).

Btw, in my language we call "God" as "He", but probably because we don't have a word for "It" lol, plus we can have "Deus"(God) as masculine and still have "Deusa"(still god) in feminine. Traditional religions use "Deus", but some other religions that believes in a female god(Wicca, for example) calls it "Deusa".

Really, religion and faith are stuff you can't put stereotypes in, everyone has a different concept of God, even when they don't believe in It. You don't need to try to disprove anyone's beliefs as it won't change their view, may you believe or not in God.

Your post reminds me of Thomas Aquinas - the European who thought that faith and reason are not mutually exclusive. I think, as far as that goes, that it does have some validity, even though I myself do not believe in God.

[Jake]

That's not completely true. This trend is really only in the past ~100 years, before that I think the faith / power of religious figures was more of a wave.

In the past 100 years we have also gone through several revolutions and the way of life has changed DRASTICALLY. Basically for the past 5000 years excluding the last 100, technology has slowly raised in the sense buildings get upgraded, easier ways to do things etc.

In the past 100 years we have gone to the fecking moon (didn't see god out there in space like anyone >150 years ago would have thought), tv, coloured pictures and the list obviously goes on.

The realization here is that when people are pushed to realitiy, there is no fucking god(s). If there was then the earth wouldn't be going to shits right now, but even if it wasn't I still wouldn't believe in some magician dicking around. Also I do not believe in any spirits or entities, I just believe it happened.

[Mr. Hobo]

Why the hell can't science and spirituality be together?

Spirituality is built on unfounded beliefs which sciences tends to poke holes in

[generalgsus]

Spirituality is built on unfounded beliefs which sciences tends to poke holes in

But sometimes spirituality arises out of the need of early civilizations to have some sort of unifying force. If it's kept them together/unified for so long, one can hardly force them to suddenly drop all their beliefs. I think maybe science should just let spirituality be. I mean, it's not like if the two are present at the same time we're all going to suddenly die or something.

[luvsmyncis]

I think maybe science should just let spirituality be. I mean, it's not like if the two are present at the same time we're all going to suddenly die or something.

We are all going to die no matter what.
That's a scientific fact.

[generalgsus]

We are all going to die no matter what.
That's a scientific fact.

Lol @ constant random posts.

What happened to your avatar of the "smooth" guy who snapped his fingers and pointed? That one was better IMO.

But yes, obviously we are all going to die...

[Josh]

Spirituality is built on unfounded beliefs which sciences tends to poke holes in

There's many realms spirituality covers that science cannot touch. Take morals for example, human wickedness is something that cannot be attributed to any genetic disorder or hereditary trait. At most, irrational and illogical actions could possibly be accounted for, but wickedness is an entirely different beast.

[Sweeney]

There's many realms spirituality covers that science cannot touch. Take morals for example, human wickedness is something that cannot be attributed to any genetic disorder or hereditary trait. At most, irrational and illogical actions could possibly be accounted for, but wickedness is an entirely different beast.

Sure, if you can demonstrate that "wickedness" actually exists, and isn't just flowery language for "not being a very nice person".

[artificial]

There's many realms spirituality covers that science cannot touch. Take morals for example, human wickedness is something that cannot be attributed to any genetic disorder or hereditary trait. At most, irrational and illogical actions could possibly be accounted for, but wickedness is an entirely different beast.

Scissors cuts paper, paper covers rock, rock crushes lizard, lizard poisons Spock, Spock smashes scissors, scissors decapitates lizard, lizard eats paper, paper disproves Spock, Spock vaporizes rock, and as it always has, rock crushes scissors.

I'm sure some people are genetically predisposed to produce a greater amount of certain chemicals that contribute to such traits. Variation doesn't have to be all physiological.

[kiddX]

There's many realms spirituality covers that science cannot touch. Take morals for example, human wickedness is something that cannot be attributed to any genetic disorder or hereditary trait. At most, irrational and illogical actions could possibly be accounted for, but wickedness is an entirely different beast.

wtf is wickedness. it's called free will. Do you get mad at a lion if it bites you? No, because its a fucking lion - it's just doing what it can. What then is so weird about people doing what they can do?