1730 replies to this topic

[Waser Lave]

You said I'd be denied access into heaven if I accepted god, genuinely, just before death, after a sinful life.
Passage and verse, or retract your lies ^^

Not lying is one of those commandment thingys right?

[emerkeng]

Oh he definitely has... and so have I.


(Deuteronomy 17:2)

So according to this, you should be stoning every Muslim man or woman you see because he/she is serving another god/worshipping them (in this case Allah)? I can find more for you if you want that, which condone rape and slavery. You probably didn't go over these at Sunday school did you?

No you guys have not you guys take translations from the bible and believe what you want to believe but there are answers for everything in the passages. If you want come to Cali and come to my church you guys just have hardened hearts right now and will not believe the truth but who cares you know it's not me that's going to hell even though i tried to warn you guys =)

[Waser Lave]

No you guys have not you guys take translations from the bible and believe what you want to believe but there are answers for everything in the passages. If you want come to Cali and come to my church you guys just have hardened hearts right now and will not believe the truth but who cares you know it's not me that's going to hell even though i tried to warn you guys =)

Can we send Noit or Hydrogen to your church to learn the truth? They're both pretty close to California.

I'm just glad I don't believe in your hell and so it's not much of a threat.

[emerkeng]

You said I'd be denied access into heaven if I accepted god, genuinely, just before death, after a sinful life.
Passage and verse, or retract your lies ^^

no look at my post again and understand what it says what i wrote was that the lord will deny you access into heaven if you are not genuine in your actions if you do not truly accept him and just look at is an out out of hell and you don't genuinely accept him or even believe he exists you will go to hell. If you truly accept him with all your heart he will accept you into the kingdom of heaven. He knows your actions.

[ShadowLink64]

Can we send Noit or Hydrogen to your church to learn the truth? They're both pretty close to California.

I'm just glad I don't believe in your hell and so it's not much of a threat.

We'll send Noit. I have enough with the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons trying to recruit me....

[emerkeng]

Can we send Noit or Hydrogen to your church to learn the truth? They're both pretty close to California.

I'm just glad I don't believe in your hell and so it's not much of a threat.

Sure =). However, just cause you don't believe in a hell doesn't mean it exists =).

[iargue]

Oh he definitely has... and so have I.


(Deuteronomy 17:2)

So according to this, you should be stoning every Muslim man or woman you see because he/she is serving another god/worshipping them (in this case Allah)? I can find more for you if you want that, which condone rape and slavery. You probably didn't go over these at Sunday school did you?

Lets go and stone people .

[Waser Lave]

We'll send Noit. I have enough with the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons trying to recruit me....

I actually quite like Mormons. And Jehovah's Witnesses are always up for a debate so they're not too bad.

I expect if we sent Noit they would actually try to stone him after 5 minutes.

[iargue]

I actually quite like Mormons. And Jehovah's Witnesses are always up for a debate so they're not too bad.

I expect if we sent Noit they would actually try to stone him after 5 minutes.

You have to be without sin to stone someone.

[jcrdude]

I actually quite like Mormons. And Jehovah's Witnesses are always up for a debate so they're not too bad.

I expect if we sent Noit they would actually try to stone him after 5 minutes.

I was a Jehovah's Witness. Want to have a little debate? My "The Bible made me an atheist" statement still goes unreplied :c

You have to be without sin to stone someone.

I'll throw the first stone. Y'all can join in afterwards. I'll bear the sin of throwing the first stone while being sinful. The Bible does not say a thing about "he without sin throwing the second stone"

[emerkeng]

You guys are trying to trap me in a paradox the bible allows sex within the confines of marriage it doesn't want people to be lustful of women but if we are we are still allowed to ask for forgiveness





Oh yeh was this your question:
1. I read the Bible as a believer. It's most of what turned me into an unbeliever, really.
2. This sounds very similar to a theory of alien intervention I've read before.

Too lazy to catch up on the rest of the argument, so I'll just expand on the response that was pointed directly at me.

I read the Bible as an irrational believer. After reading and being told that it has basis in the rational, I began reading as a rational believer. The more I read while attempting to be rational, the less made sense.... and this is allowing for embellishments to details to allow for strengthening of the points made in the parables. So you were wrong. This is not an unbeliever trying to disprove the Bible. This is a disbeliever CREATED by the Bible and people like you that say there is a rational basis to the Bible. YES there are facts that parallel to actual events... and believers will always use those as proof of the Bible's truthfulness, but I counter that it just adds to its truthiness.

It was on the page before it =) cept I don't know what youre trying to ask me . . . O.O

To answer your question IDK what you want me to answer haha )=

[jcrdude]

To answer your question IDK what you want me to answer haha )=

It's not a question. I was stating that...

a) You were wrong. I wasn't simply a disbeliever trying to disprove the Bible and
b) It was people like you that try to move from irrationally reading to rationalizing that turned me into an non-believer. Had I just kept reading it without thinking, I might still be a Christian today.

I was hoping for some sort of retort or explanation of what I did wrong.

Also I used Truthiness in a sentence and it was oh so appropriate

[iargue]

I'll throw the first stone. Y'all can join in afterwards. I'll bear the sin of throwing the first stone while being sinful. The Bible does not say a thing about "he without sin throwing the second stone"

No. Its only okay to do it if the first person is without sin. Your not without sin, so it will not be okay for everyone else as well. You cant qoute a single part of the bible. Its all of the bible.


God says that everyone is born into sin, and then he says that you should stone sinners, but only people without sin can stone people. This means, God, and only God has the right to stone people.

Ty.

[pabs123]

I was a Jehovah's Witness. Want to have a little debate? My "The Bible made me an atheist" statement still goes unreplied :c



I'll throw the first stone. Y'all can join in afterwards. I'll bear the sin of throwing the first stone while being sinful. The Bible does not say a thing about "he without sin throwing the second stone"

hmm i like this...let's all sacrifice jcr for a good ol' fashion stoning who are we going to stone?

[emerkeng]

It's not a question. I was stating that...

a) You were wrong. I wasn't simply a disbeliever trying to disprove the Bible and
b) It was people like you that try to move from irrationally reading to rationalizing that turned me into an non-believer. Had I just kept reading it without thinking, I might still be a Christian today.

I was hoping for some sort of retort or explanation of what I did wrong.

Also I used Truthiness in a sentence and it was oh so appropriate

I don't think you did anything wrong except you lacked faith but even Jesus's disciples at one point in time lacked faith. I believe if you were in the right environment with a good pastor to guide you on your journey you would have still been a Christian. You said you were a Jehovah's Witness, many Christians believe Jehovah's Witnesses is more of a cult and they don't approve of it due to their radical ideas that some believe are not from the bible I do not know if this is true or not. If you still want to become a Christian I believe a small Presbyterian Church would be the best environment for you =).

Edited by pathentic, 18 July 2010 - 07:37 PM.

[iargue]

hmm i like this...let's all sacrifice jcr for a good ol' fashion stoning who are we going to stone?

Bagel.

[pabs123]

Bagel.

what did Bagel do

[Raui]

What if I read the Qur'an and accept the Islamic god? Does that mean I goto Christian hell, while being in Islamic heaven or visa versa? Thought experiment time (weeeeee); If I went up to 2 men one Christian and the other Islamic and asked them 'Would you rather me smile at you or punch you in the face?' Mental illnesses aside both would rather me smile at them. Therefore their ideas of happy and sad are the same, Christian Heaven = Islamic Heaven so it is impossible for me to be in Christian hell and Islamic heaven so what does that say? It either tells you that they're one and the same or neither religion that denies others beliefs is worth wasting any thought on.
</random>

[iargue]

What if I read the Qur'an and accept the Islamic god? Does that mean I goto Christian hell, while being in Islamic heaven or visa versa? Thought experiment time (weeeeee); If I went up to 2 men one Christian and the other Islamic and asked them 'Would you rather me smile at you or punch you in the face?' Mental illnesses aside both would rather me smile at them. Therefore their ideas of happy and sad are the same, Christian Heaven = Islamic Heaven so it is impossible for me to be in Christian hell and Islamic heaven so what does that say? It either tells you that they're one and the same or neither religion that denies others beliefs is worth wasting any thought on.
</random>

No silly. You will be in Christan hell, and only Christian hell. Because there is only one god. You believed in someone that did not exist, and so you cannot go to that persons heaven. Christian is (Of course) the one true religion, and not believing in it would mean you go to hell.

what did Bagel do

Everything

[pabs123]

Everything

is that a fact or an assumption

[iargue]

is that a fact or an assumption

Fact.

[Greatgenes]

i do not believe in god. personally i think the world would be a much better place without religion, however humankind being the natural spirtual beings that we are will never let go of religion. how many gods are there anyways ?? there is so many all around the world. does this make one religious belief right and the rest of them wrong? personally i dont want to pick any of them and i would rather pursue a habbit of looking for leperchauns, if i do however find a leprechaun maybe i will think the impossable is possable and maybe have faith in god.

this is just my personal beliefs no rude comments plz...

Edited by Greatgenes, 18 July 2010 - 08:21 PM.

[pabs123]

i do not believe in god. personally i think the world would be a much better place without religion, however humankind being the natural spirtual beings that we are will never let go of religion. how many gods are there anyways ?? there is so many all around the world. does this make one religious belief right and the rest of them wrong? personally i dont want to pick any of them and i would rather pursue a habbit of looking for leperchauns, if i do however find a leprechaun maybe i will think the impossable is possable and maybe have faith in god.

this is just my personal beliefs no rude comments plz...

may i join you in looking for a leprechaun? twice the chance of finding one, and about a million times more likely than proving god's existence to a board of intelligent people at neocodex

[jcrdude]

I don't think you did anything wrong except you lacked faith but even Jesus's disciples at one point in time lacked faith. I believe if you were in the right environment with a good pastor to guide you on your journey you would have still been a Christian. You said you were a Jehovah's Witness, many Christians believe Jehovah's Witnesses is more of a cult and they don't approve of it due to their radical ideas that some believe are not from the bible I do not know if this is true or not. If you still want to become a Christian I believe a small Presbyterian Church would be the best environment for you =).

If I'm trying to make rational sense out of a book, why do I need faith?

That would be like cutting out the last 4 acts of Romeo and Juliet and replacing it with "trust us, it doesn't end well.... THE END"

RE: Jehovah's Witnesses

They believe what's in the Bible and pretty strictly what is in the Bible. There's a reason they don't celebrate any of the major holidays (they're pagan holidays that were Christianized to gain a following when Christianity was busy converting the pagans). There's a reason they go door to door (The Bible says to go out and preach The Word, so they do). There is nothing particularly cult-like about the actual teachings themselves (lectures taken from the Bible), or they wouldn't have become a proper "religion." It's not nice to make fun of the geek because he's smaller than you

They are the reason I read most of the Bible. Where most sermons in churches I have attended are a verse or two with 20 minutes of speaking and another 15 minutes of singing, Jehovah's Witnesses' services usually involved copious passages from the Bible.

In the end, though, it comes down to a matter of circular logic. Using a book to back that same book up is pretty ludicrous. Even though there may be parallels between certain passages and the real world, that cannot be used to validate the entire thing (England exists... where are Romeo and Juliet buried?).

The thing about rationalizing CERTAIN parts to justify the whole thing being true is that it is a logical fallacy.

In the end, one has to decide whether or not Moses spoke to God through a bush, whether Mary was impregnated by God, whether Muhammad was spoken to by God, whether Joseph Smith, Jr. had a one-on-one with an angel, whether we come back in another body when we die, etc.

If we are bound to reason, we cannot find enough evidence to back any of these, of course, and we get thrown into the Agnostic pile.

Faith is a difficult thing for the logical. I don't have faith that tomorrow will come. I will plan for it, but I may die in my sleep tonight and my plans will have gone to waste. I don't have faith that the afterlife will come, so I have to decide how much time I am willing to devote to planning for it. My decision is that I have already devoted enough time to studying it and that it is not at all necessary for me to plan any further due to the sheer probability of me picking the wrong religion should I actually pick one. I'm either going on a crapshoot and hoping I'm right, or resigning myself to the fact that I do not know and there's nothing I can do to change it. If it were simply a matter of "I believe in this...." then there would not be any harm in me picking a religion, but with the sheer time investment necessary to hoping for an afterlife, the odds just do not play out in my favor. This is one time that it is better to lose the game and enjoy my life now as a good person (which would earn me bonus points regardless of faith in many religions) than to devote myself to something that might well be wrong.

[emerkeng]

If I'm trying to make rational sense out of a book, why do I need faith?

That would be like cutting out the last 4 acts of Romeo and Juliet and replacing it with "trust us, it doesn't end well.... THE END"

RE: Jehovah's Witnesses

They believe what's in the Bible and pretty strictly what is in the Bible. There's a reason they don't celebrate any of the major holidays (they're pagan holidays that were Christianized to gain a following when Christianity was busy converting the pagans). There's a reason they go door to door (The Bible says to go out and preach The Word, so they do). There is nothing particularly cult-like about the actual teachings themselves (lectures taken from the Bible), or they wouldn't have become a proper "religion." It's not nice to make fun of the geek because he's smaller than you

They are the reason I read most of the Bible. Where most sermons in churches I have attended are a verse or two with 20 minutes of speaking and another 15 minutes of singing, Jehovah's Witnesses' services usually involved copious passages from the Bible.

In the end, though, it comes down to a matter of circular logic. Using a book to back that same book up is pretty ludicrous. Even though there may be parallels between certain passages and the real world, that cannot be used to validate the entire thing (England exists... where are Romeo and Juliet buried?).

The thing about rationalizing CERTAIN parts to justify the whole thing being true is that it is a logical fallacy.

In the end, one has to decide whether or not Moses spoke to God through a bush, whether Mary was impregnated by God, whether Muhammad was spoken to by God, whether Joseph Smith, Jr. had a one-on-one with an angel, whether we come back in another body when we die, etc.

If we are bound to reason, we cannot find enough evidence to back any of these, of course, and we get thrown into the Agnostic pile.

Faith is a difficult thing for the logical. I don't have faith that tomorrow will come. I will plan for it, but I may die in my sleep tonight and my plans will have gone to waste. I don't have faith that the afterlife will come, so I have to decide how much time I am willing to devote to planning for it. My decision is that I have already devoted enough time to studying it and that it is not at all necessary for me to plan any further due to the sheer probability of me picking the wrong religion should I actually pick one. I'm either going on a crapshoot and hoping I'm right, or resigning myself to the fact that I do not know and there's nothing I can do to change it. If it were simply a matter of "I believe in this...." then there would not be any harm in me picking a religion, but with the sheer time investment necessary to hoping for an afterlife, the odds just do not play out in my favor. This is one time that it is better to lose the game and enjoy my life now as a good person (which would earn me bonus points regardless of faith in many religions) than to devote myself to something that might well be wrong.

I admit I understand your points and I'm too lazy to argue with it haha. But about Jehovah's witnesses I don't really know much about your denomination but my favorite athlete Nate Quarry I remember was a member of Jehovah's witnesses until he was around 24 at which point he took up MMA. According to him since his decision to leave the Jehovah's witnesses he became alienated from his friends and family. In an interview he characterized the Jehovah's witnesses as a cult that controls its members 24/7. Something that is not common in other church denominations. In definition also a cult means that it deviates from the bible.

Edited by pathentic, 18 July 2010 - 09:36 PM.