41 replies to this topic

[Faval]

I was reading this article here and pondered on this question "Was it necessary to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WWII?" and thought it'd be a good topic for debate.

What's your take on it?

I personally think it was an evil necessity based on the knowledge that was told to me by the probably biased American school system and media. The Japanese government at the time wouldn't have surrendered otherwise and would fight to the last man standing which would include women and children.

[blahblah35]

Its been a while, and I am not versed enough to say with any substance whether it was a good decision, but looking purely at the chain of events it caused, the bomb has some merit. In that vain, I would say that had the bomb not been dropped, we would have already had a World War III. Because it was dropped, we essentially got largescale peace in the cold war, which gave the UN enough time to establish itself, and created a general atmosphere of understanding that humanity has reached a point where its weapons could destroy the entire race, if applied. Thanks to that, we now have a peace between the large nations that previous to WW2, would be considered strange. For example, I think every one of us would be shocked if Germany suddenly declared War on Poland, or Russia, or the US. It is just no longer a real thought, thanks in part to the dropping of those bombs.

The second upside to nuclear explosions: http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=6930

[Waser Lave]

I think the Japanese showed how unwilling to surrender they were even when defending territory which they'd just captured, imagine how much more reluctant they would be to surrender their home land...

[Jiraiya]

Just like what Pain said in Naruto Shipuuden, we need to let people experience extreme pain and that will lead people to the road of peace especially those people who just wants to kill and cause chaos in the world. This extreme pain will act as a deterrent and will lead to peace for a long period of time. I guess that is what happened in the Cold War just like what blah said, people during that time are afraid about the effects of nuclear weapons because they know what it can do and they saw it. I guess it was neccessary.

[Jake]

Just like what Pain said in Naruto Shipuuden, we need to let people experience extreme pain and that will lead people to the road of peace especially those people who just wants to kill and cause chaos in the world. This extreme pain will act as a deterrent and will lead to peace for a long period of time. I guess that is what happened in the Cold War just like what blah said, people during that time are afraid about the effects of nuclear weapons because they know what it can do and they saw it. I guess it was neccessary.

What is Naruto Shipuuden?

It was not necessary but it did save many casualties on both sides. Regardless or not if their pride was intact and forced them to fight to the last person, they would not have surrendered until it was evident that the americans would win the war. 300k~ civillians dead is much smaller than what could have been, but it was still an excuse for the U.S. to test it out.

[Ambition]

Just like what Pain said in Naruto Shipuuden, we need to let people experience extreme pain and that will lead people to the road of peace especially those people who just wants to kill and cause chaos in the world. This extreme pain will act as a deterrent and will lead to peace for a long period of time. I guess that is what happened in the Cold War just like what blah said, people during that time are afraid about the effects of nuclear weapons because they know what it can do and they saw it. I guess it was neccessary.

Nothing wiser than quoting anime in a serious debate on whether or not the massacre of over 100,000 people was justifiable.

[Paulster]

Dropping those bombs was very much a necessity. For more than just saving lives. We had developed the most powerful weapon in the world, and wanted to show it off. There was discussion about not even nuking Japan, but inviting the Emperor to watch us drop one in the ocean and tell him if he doesn't quit we would drop them on Japan. We decided against that because of the possibility of the bomb not detonating and Japan getting History's greatest lulz moment.

[Jiraiya]

Google Naruto Shipuuden and watch it Jake.

I know Live, just remembered the time when Naruto and Pain talked about how to obtain peace. I know it might be a little off tangent response but I just want to throw it out there. lol

[Faval]

What is Naruto Shipuuden?

It was not necessary but it did save many casualties on both sides. Regardless or not if their pride was intact and forced them to fight to the last person, they would not have surrendered until it was evident that the americans would win the war. 300k~ civillians dead is much smaller than what could have been, but it was still an excuse for the U.S. to test it out.

Some anime on a downward spiral.

It would have just been a matter of time until they lost. The USSR was also going to join the fray in Japan. I'm pretty sure the casualties for the civilian side would be very high especially since the US was already bombing Tokyo and doing blockades on food supplies that would have starved most civilians. 300k compared to millions, it's an excuse but is it a valid one? Maybe...maybe not.

[Volition]

Japan had it coming, everyone got tired of war and the US was like "hey guys, i got a new toy" and also karma for Unit 731

[LeoOzinN]

It was necessary cuz it marked the end of the second world war for Japan.

[emerkeng]

The atomic bombing of Japan was a necessary evil that had to be done. Culturally like other Asians the Japanese pride themselves on their fighting spirit and many during the time were willing to give up their lives for their emperor and the war effort. At that time if the U.S. had instead opted for a invasion by land they would have lost too many troops and it would have been as devastating for the U.S. as well. For one thing the other battles that the U.S. fought in Japan cost many U.S. casualties for small victories. In the end It was just a overall better option to just shock the Japanese into surrender the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki did just that.

Edited by pathentic, 06 August 2010 - 02:01 PM.

[supermnstr]

It was necessary cuz it marked the end of the second world war for Japan.

Yes but there could have been other ways to end world war 2 with Japan ie invade the mainland. The only problem is that leaves you with a several thousand dead American and Japanese soldiers.

The bombing costed America nothing (perhaps their conscience? ... nah!) and Japan had everything to loose. Morally it was wrong.

[redlion]

What Wazer said.

To elaborate, the Japanese would have fought on, especially to defend their civilians. Truman justified the bombings by estimating how many American (or Allied) lives would have been lost in conquering Japan, and then comparing that number to the lives lost in the first bombing. It was simple mathematics to him.

Although, to be entirely honest, the Japanese were trying to surrender between the first bombing and the second, there was just some miscommunication at the state level. But at that point, they had really pissed us off with that fascist, expansionist bullshit. So you could say they deserved it.

Also, fun fact: the peace accords for the Pacific theatre were signed on the USS Missouri, which sailed to Japan on Truman's orders specifically to host the signing. Truman was from Missouri like me

[Noitidart]

I can't believe people think this was necessary. This move was one of the worst in history. They wiped out CIVILIANS. You don't attack CIVILIANS....

I don't have to say anymore. You don't attack defenseless people. Not only that they radiated the crap out of them and created handicaps there and then in their future generations. It is so so so so so sad.

Just like what Pain said in Naruto Shipuuden, we need to let people experience extreme pain and that will lead people to the road of peace especially those people who just wants to kill and cause chaos in the world. This extreme pain will act as a deterrent and will lead to peace for a long period of time. I guess that is what happened in the Cold War just like what blah said, people during that time are afraid about the effects of nuclear weapons because they know what it can do and they saw it. I guess it was neccessary.

>_<
Come on man we all know Pain is wrong. I'm watching Shippuden too. Pains an idiot, that's why Naruto kicks his ass. Now he's having a meeting with him. But if you want some shippuden: remember how angry naruto is at pain and how he wants to crush him but hold back. Think Jiraya man!!

[redlion]

I can't believe people think this was necessary. This move was one of the worst in history. They wiped out CIVILIANS. You don't attack CIVILIANS....

I don't have to say anymore. You don't attack defenseless people. Not only that they radiated the crap out of them and created handicaps there and then in their future generations. It is so so so so so sad.


>_<
Come on man we all know Pain is wrong. I'm watching Shippuden too. Pains an idiot, that's why Naruto kicks his ass.

No one is ever defenseless. Look at how much trouble the Taliban is still causing in Iraq, and they probably have about ten AKs between the whole lot of them. You want to end a war? You don't do it by being nice.

Besides, Sun Tzu said to attack at the weakest point. For most nations, that would be the civilian population.

And if none of that convinced you, there's always this old adage: All's fair in love and war.

[Noitidart]

You don't end a war by being absolutely disgusting either. I mean this is WORSE then complete disgust. You don't attack defenseless people. Not only that, you don't attack their future generations, that is just ridiculously disgusting.

All is not fair in anything. There is limits everywhere.

Sun Tzu isn't the ideal human being.

[iomega]

Were the bombings necessary? Yes. With how much weight the Japanese put on their honour, they would never have given up that quickly if it weren't for those bombs.
The Americans basically said: "we have the power to destroy your country, not just your army, and we have no problem doing so."

I do, however, agree with noit, the bombing of civilians is disgusting, completely inappropriate and disgraceful. It should never have even been an option.

[blahblah35]

Noit is very much right on an individual and communal level, but the case can be made that the world is better off, and that those people were a sacrifice to make that possible. A necessary sacrifice, maybe? Its a very common way that world leaders tackle problems. The primary debate is therefore: Do the ends justify the means? or not...

[Mr. Hobo]

I can't believe people think this was necessary. This move was one of the worst in history. They wiped out CIVILIANS. You don't attack CIVILIANS....

I don't have to say anymore. You don't attack defenseless people. Not only that they radiated the crap out of them and created handicaps there and then in their future generations. It is so so so so so sad.

It was WW2. Attacking civilians wasn't exactly uncommon...

[redlion]

You don't end a war by being absolutely disgusting either. I mean this is WORSE then complete disgust. You don't attack defenseless people. Not only that, you don't attack their future generations, that is just ridiculously disgusting.

All is not fair in anything. There is limits everywhere.

Sun Tzu isn't the ideal human being.

I'm glad you feel this way, and I respect the peaceful outlook. But peace is given a chance once in a generation. That happened in the Age of Enlightenment, only a few decades before the Great Wars, and it happened in the Sixties as a backlash to the bomb. The atomic age came about because it was a time of extremes. Look at Hitler; he was elected by popular vote. And Stalin had just overthrown one of the largest land empires in history, ending the age when Russia could be depended upon to act a certain way. We can't fathom world war on that level. World output was split between many sources, and the possibilities for new technology were extremely volatile. Nowadays war is always a political and military superpower against a political and military dwarf. Or dwarfs fighting amongst themselves. The scale of conflict is different, and much more humane. World War II happened before the conveniences and niceties of the final Geneva Conventions. There weren't laws of warfare.

Besides, if the war had dragged on, maybe Japan would have got the bomb and used it on us. Or some other devastating weapon of mass destruction. You can never know to what lengths and extremes an opponent will go to in order to win. Better to end the dispute swiftly than to give a chance to improbable feats.

It was WW2. Attacking civilians wasn't exactly uncommon...

Exactly. The Battle of Britain. Coventry, Dresden. Pearl Harbor. Nanking. Not to mention racial profiling and discrimination on every side. Reference Geneva Conventions once again.

[Waser Lave]

The entirety of WWII was basically a story of civilians suffering, from the entire destruction of cities like Coventry, Dresden etc and later Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the starving of the Dutch during occupation, the concentration camps, the forced internment of citizens etc. It's a very long list which certainly doesn't begin with the nuclear bombs being dropped. Personally I think a prolonged campaign in Japan would have had many more civilian (not to mention military) casualties than were killed during the bombings of those two cities.

[Zacharus]

Yes it was! Japanese were so cruel it wouldn't harm even if they bomb 1 more Japan country <3 if they didn't I probably wouldn't be alive now
Believed US warned them before they even started it so yeah they DID deserve it and had it coming

Edited by Incantation, 07 August 2010 - 03:01 AM.

[Noitidart]

True, everyone was being totally horrible. It didn't justify us being horrible though. But it happened. I don't think it's something to be proud of.

You guys are awesome discussers/debaters. I love chatting with all of you oldies. <3

[Jake]

The long term effects of nuclear warfare are indeed disgusting and inhumane, causing cancer/leukaemia etc. but try imagining a wide spread gas attack. Gas was relatively new near this time and was considered too inhumane for war... if they had of used this version for example, there would have been much more conflict with the way they done this. At least a nuclear warhead is instant death for 90% of the people. (not an actual figure)

Yes it was! Japanese were so cruel it wouldn't harm even if they bomb 1 more Japan country <3 if they didn't I probably wouldn't be alive now
Believed US warned them before they even started it so yeah they DID deserve it and had it coming

I hope this was a troll post, otherwise you are just ignorant.

Edited by Jake, 07 August 2010 - 04:50 AM.